I worry about the MG longevity.

We bought two ex-demonstrator MG3s about 3 years ago - 200 miles on one and 800 miles on the other, both with MG satnav. About 12-18 months in the satnavs both developed a millennium type bug where the date goes back roughly 20 years. Set the date and it is fine, turn off the ignition and its 1999 all over again.

Now this bug is well known in Satnav circles and all the major players have developed a fix, MGs fix was to rip out and dispose of the satnav - seriously. No technical support even when supposedly escalated to MG UK - tried three different dealers.

What chance technical support, or spares availability 5 years on if they can't support something as simple as a satnav 18 months on, with the car still in the current line up. 7 year warranty is worthless if there are no parts, or the dealerships only last a few years - both of which are true in my experience.

Satnav apart both cars have done well, no mechanical issues, very cheap parts (alloy + tyre £95), both required center console removing to recrimp dodgy connections to the radios - did at home as it's quicker than driving to the dealerships. Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Error, see below my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

Last edited by Dartman the one on 3rd Sep 2022 10:44 am. Edited 1 time in total

jules wrote:

IanMetro wrote:

Just spotted this Land Rover, parked in town, close to my car.

It seems we may have an alternative to EV or ICE.




(This image is off internet)

strange frame geometry - seat tube looks very short even for a commuter bike

I whilst waiting around for my wife, I took a look in a Hyundai Dealer at an Ioniq 5 EV Car.

I have seen a few around and they have had good reviews, but I wanted to see how big it really was and have a sit in it.

The good news is that it is similar in size to the FL2, although I haven't found a modern car with such a flat solid extended boot floor as the FL2.

It did however seem bare and basic inside, and I was disappointed in how flimsy it felt again compared with the FL2, or indeed the Jaguar I-pace I was loaned for the day while my FL2 was being serviced.

I have written this note because I have just read in a motoring magazine that modern EVs are now designed from the platform upwards to be very light to offset the considerable weight of the battery. I do wonder if I witnessed in the Ioniq the results of this.

I then read with interest Nodge's comments in the recent Cills (Sills?) posting and I do wonder if modern car bodies will be repairable by the average garage.

Surely this and modern car electronics/computing will eventually lead to only Main Dealers being the only way of maintaining cars.


Nodge Wrote
Up to about 20 years ago, it was perfectly acceptable to weld in new sills. I've done sills on may cars from the 60s, 70s, and 80, including my own 72 Hillman Avenger sills, along with chassis rails, bulkhead repairs and inner wing replacements.
However with the advance in vehicle body structures, and increased crash worthiness, it's not so easy to simply weld in new structural components, as most modern vehicles used high strength steels (Boron steel for instance) in key areas. Yes technically is can be done, but use the wrong welding technique, or place welds in the wrong place, and a strong crash resistant body can become a not so strong body, which could deform in an impact.

The service manual for the Freelander 2 does explain what can and can't be repaired, and what welding technique to use in which area.
Also many vehicles also use special adhesives in key areas to compliment welds, although I'm not sure if the Freel2 is one of them.

Take a look in the service book for body repair procedures, and see what it says.
Me personally, I'd rather replace a modern vehicle, rather than risk an unsafe repaired one.

https://www.freel2.com/forum/topic38589.html FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 76k+ miles) (MY2015)

I like the Ionic 5, particularly its retro styling. But I also like the look of the Polestar 2, and the new Polestar 3, although both are well out of my price range.
The battery in an EV not only provides the power, but also stiffens the body shell, as most EVs these days use stressed battery casings. The other advantage to having the battery placed centrally and low down in the body, is much reduced body roll, and most EVs also have near 50/50 weight distribution.

Unfortunately all modern vehicle bodies are expensive to repair, which means even expensive ones are often written off instead of being repaired, where structural damage is caused. Insurance companies are now writing off Freelanders because of damaged bumpers, which is a bit extreme, but that's high repair costs for you.

It's the sign of the times where replacement parts are expensive, bodies are difficult to repair correctly, and paint refinishing costs are high too.

Yes anything can be repaired, but would you trust a repaired vehicle to protect your family should the worst happen? I'm not sure I would, even if I did the repair work myself. 2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Soon to be sold.
Hyundai Ionic 5 Ultimate on order.
Gone. 2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE.

With all the pollution zone taxes you have, it maybe cheaper to swap the Freelander for a fully electric Rolls Royce Spectre! Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

Lightwater - A good idea - but I can only do it if you buy it for me - thanks for the offer.

PS from what I read car prices are up 10% since January and EV Charging up 42%.

Nodge - I started my working life in the aircraft industry and, although its not my trade, know just how clever and lightweight the airframes are, but also how hard it can be to repair damage safely. (they also damage easily if you step on the wrong area)
I take it from your comments the 'apparent' flimsy feeling I experienced with that EV was down to cleverly designed panels with just enough material in them to do the job.
It seems that I should through away my old glass fibre repair kits, before I am tempted to fill any holes. Although modern galvanised panels on my FL2 seem to make it unlikely that it will be needed. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 76k+ miles) (MY2015)

Where ever you look w days it’s always what if or is it safe, which is all very good. Who remember driving motors that did not even have seat bels fitted, or riding in the back of a van sat on a scaffold board on a couple of old milk crates. How would a normal person know if a car had been repaired if it was not a recorded accident or a company that self insured it’s motor. Life now days seems overly risk adverse. I think a lot of over thinking goes on sometimes, but each to their own.

jules wrote:

IanMetro wrote:

Just spotted this Land Rover, parked in town, close to my car.

It seems we may have an alternative to EV or ICE.




(This image is off internet)

strange frame geometry - seat tube looks very short even for a commuter bike

Fairly common way of setting! up a bike up around here, people emulate what they see in competitions, ie. Mountain bike or BMX
riding like that every day would damage their knees, plus they get annoyed when they can't hit the hills as fast as me.  DAVE.
I.A.M. F1rst Driver.
Gone 2003 Discovery TD5 Auto,
Gone 1986 Defender 90 Station Wagon
Gone 1984 Range Rover 3.5 Vogue Manual.
Gone 1970 Series 11A/3 SWB 3.5 V8 Hybrid
Gone 1964 Series 11A LWB Van
Gone 1966 Series 11A SWB Van
Gone 1964 Series 11A LWB Station Wagon,

Just a driver wrote:

Where ever you look w days it’s always what if or is it safe, which is all very good. Who remember driving motors that did not even have seat bels fitted, or riding in the back of a van sat on a scaffold board on a couple of old milk crates. How would a normal person know if a car had been repaired if it was not a recorded accident or a company that self insured it’s motor. Life now days seems overly risk adverse. I think a lot of over thinking goes on sometimes, but each to their own.

@IanMetro, modern cars do feel flimsy, especially panels like bonnets, doors and wings, but those are only decorative.
The metal which is there to protect the occupants isn't flimsy at all, far from it. Under the panels are very sturdy and carefully designed structural members whose sole purpose is to keep the occupants safe in an impact.
Take a look at the Euro Ncap crash tests for some of these flimsy feeling cars, and you'll soon see that when it matters, they're anything but flimsy. 2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Soon to be sold.
Hyundai Ionic 5 Ultimate on order.
Gone. 2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE.

Nodge68 wrote:

Just a driver wrote:

Where ever you look w days it’s always what if or is it safe, which is all very good. Who remember driving motors that did not even have seat bels fitted, or riding in the back of a van sat on a scaffold board on a couple of old milk crates. How would a normal person know if a car had been repaired if it was not a recorded accident or a company that self insured it’s motor. Life now days seems overly risk adverse. I think a lot of over thinking goes on sometimes, but each to their own.

You have to remember that the other guy could well be in a 2 ton 5 ☆ Euro Ncap rated SUV, travelling at well over the speed limit, driving like he owns the road.
I've been to far to many RTAs including fatalities over the years to be blasé about the vehicle my family travel in. I only consider 4 ☆ and 5 ☆ rated vehicles for my family use, which is why I have a Freelander 2.

It may be an overkill, but perhaps all cars should have Log Books containing all significant changes and maintenance. (and these days that would include changes to the electronics and software)

That is what ensuring safety in the aircraft world requires, but it's very expensive, intrusive, and is backed up by some quite draconian punishments for not complying.

I don't think that we need to go that far, but I do worry about unauthorised changes to vehicles which may have unforeseen, unintended consequences. An example from the past was the frequent shorting out of the brake pad warning circuit.

With EVs, and indeed most modern vehicles, it is as easy as changing a software parameter to disable a circuit or (automatic?) action. Don't forget that you have very little direct control of your vehicle, it's mostly software controlled, based on requests you make via the your controls. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 76k+ miles) (MY2015)

IanMetro wrote:

It may be an overkill, but perhaps all cars should have Log Books containing all significant changes and maintenance. (and these days that would include changes to the electronics and software)

I see how this would end up: you are not authorized to change brake pads, etc. on your own car because someone has to put a signature in a Black Box -> you need to go to a dealer with every little job to do -> there is no economical sense to keep a car after the warranty has ended -> you only 'borrow' a car from a dealer -> the car is basically no longer yours -> you own nothing (and be happy)... This is not something that would happen on a day 1, but please let's avoid such ideas

Nodge68 wrote:

Just a driver wrote:

Where ever you look w days it’s always what if or is it safe, which is all very good. Who remember driving motors that did not even have seat bels fitted, or riding in the back of a van sat on a scaffold board on a couple of old milk crates. How would a normal person know if a car had been repaired if it was not a recorded accident or a company that self insured it’s motor. Life now days seems overly risk adverse. I think a lot of over thinking goes on sometimes, but each to their own.

You have to remember that the other guy could well be in a 2 ton 5 ☆ Euro Ncap rated SUV, travelling at well over the speed limit, driving like he owns the road.
I've been to far to many RTAs including fatalities over the years to be blasé about the vehicle my family travel in. I only consider 4 ☆ and 5 ☆ rated vehicles for my family use, which is why I have a Freelander 2.