what gets me about some of these hybrid vehicles out there (Lexus RX400h for example) is that they have a huge petrol engine emitting lots of nasty stuff, and a tiny electric motor to crawl along in busy London traffic at 0.1mph.

And yet they qualify for ultra low or zero road tax .............................

The drive is to get emissions out of city centres, hence the London ULEZ, so encouragement will be given to promote that, even if it seems misguided, but change will take time.

IMO HEVs are a better option for many, currently, than BEVs primarily due to range. A direct switch to BEVs is never going to happen until they can replace current ICE cars in all or many respects.

The Outlander PHEV ticks a lot of boxes for me. I can definitely do one leg of my commute on EV only, and perhaps both in certain conditions. There is talk of fitting chargers at work which if happens means I can travel to and from work for about £1 a day, with zero emissions (from the vehicle). However it is good sized and with the range of the ICE means I can still do longer journeys without having to meticulously plan a route to include charging points and the journey taking a lot longer.

What is putting me off is the cost to change, the perceptibly lower quality of the finish and, as I discovered the other day, the rear view mirror can not be adjusted far enough to suit my height!

Perhaps it would be better to inform the manufacturers the limits and let them get on with it, there may well be other ways of achieving limits without fitting compulsory filters and catalysers insisted on by the regulations. Give the engineers and chemists a free reign and see what they come up with. my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

I dont think the dpf's egr's etc are compulsory for manufacturers just unavoidable At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race

Just been announced that over 97,621 VGA and Audi vehicles are to be recalled.
VW admits that they have no solution to the problem at the moment and all owners will be receiving letters outlining the recall of their vehicles which will most likely take place in the new year once VW have a solution. MY15
Tyre Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS)
Surround Camera System
InControl Apps soon to be replaced with CarPlay (WIP)
Meridian Premium Surround Sound
Digital Audio Broadcast
Timed Climate
Cruise ECO Data
Follow Me Home Reverse
Extra Features Menu
Picture In Motion
4x4i screen (WIP)
Digital Broadcast TV
Meridian Rear Media with WIFI
Factory Powered Tailgate
Blind Spot Monitoring (BSM)
Reverse Cross Traffic Alert (RCTA)
Electrochromatic Wing Mirrors (WIP)

SimonB wrote:

I can travel to and from work for about £1 a day,!

I read an article about vw and how other tests are fiddled with for car emmissions, one test for hybrid cars is the range test, the manufacturers insist on a fully charged battery for the test. Some people say this is a fiddle as you might set out on a journey with a half charged battery. Another test for testing emmissions had to take place on a downward slope, basically the car is doing less work so less emmissions.

With regards to the battery and depreciation, this could be tough? Individual cells can be replaced if they fail. If I was buying an electric car I'd want to know if any cells have been replaced, how old the battery is etc. If the battery was an older one I would certainly be haggling over the price and wanting some kind of warranty. Black MY2013 SD4 GS Auto, Wood Company Armrest, Freel2 sticker.
Gone MY2010 Freelander 2 Manual TD4.e S, Alaska White.

I've been looking at the BEV version of the Renault Clio and in France one option is that you don't buy the battery, you lease it from Renault who replace it every 3 years (or sooner if there are problems), which seems a reasonable solution to the battery cost problems.

If I understood correctly, the Outlander PHEV batteries have an 8 year warranty, but that is against defects, not necessarily loss of capacity. I grilled the salesman quite hard about battery performance, and loss of, and apart from the recommendation to not excessively Rapid Charge, 'as far as he knew' the batteries do not deteriorate.

It's early days yet, and still not sure that I can live with the compromised performance and interior, so have not got as far as crunching the numbers. I'm certainly going to wait a few months to see how the facelift is received.

The extended warranty on the FL2 runs out in March when it turns 5 so will only have the option of the lesser warranty, and was considering changing then or before.

Anyway, sorry for the pulling the thread off topic.

I'm certainly intrigued to understand what VW will, or even can do, about reducing emissions to required levels, particularly on the older models.

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/accc-la...l_facebook

Opps VW!!! Now ya in more 💩💩 MY15
Tyre Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS)
Surround Camera System
InControl Apps soon to be replaced with CarPlay (WIP)
Meridian Premium Surround Sound
Digital Audio Broadcast
Timed Climate
Cruise ECO Data
Follow Me Home Reverse
Extra Features Menu
Picture In Motion
4x4i screen (WIP)
Digital Broadcast TV
Meridian Rear Media with WIFI
Factory Powered Tailgate
Blind Spot Monitoring (BSM)
Reverse Cross Traffic Alert (RCTA)
Electrochromatic Wing Mirrors (WIP)

Not so sure that individual cells can be replaced.
I have worked on forklifts for many (too many) years, and yes individual cells were replaced as they failed, but to be honest if a couple have failed, then the rest would soon follow.

I have also been "allowed" to stip out a battery for a very modern battery only car - not allowed to say which make. Two things struck me, the first is how well it was made, the second was how impossible it would be to replace an individual cell. You might be able to replace a stack of cells, but the battery management system would have a hissy fit. Lithium batteries have a BMS to prevent over/under charging, this can offline stacks that go out of tolerance.

remember lithium batteries have a LOT of chemical energy, forget the stored electrical energy, this would just start the fire, it's the chemical energy that is going to give firefighters nightmares ..... water + lithium = bigger fire.

Old fashioned lead acid batteries are a dream in comparison, and yes I have seen a good few of those go bang. Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

I recently read an article saying that the ultimate aim for an electric car is to combine motors with each wheel hub so that a major change in layout can be made eg no bonnet needed for an engine, batteries under the floor to reduce C of G etc. computer control of the motors then gives all of the regenerative braking, ABS, traction control, HDC, all terrain response etc etc. Forget gearboxes, diffs, haldex, clutch etc. Just 4 McPherson struts each with a motor on the end.
Oh and a towbar to pull the trailer with the extra batteries in it.  3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

Wonder how the extra unsprung mass of a reduction box and motor attached to the wheel is going to affect the handling.

You still need somewhere to put the boring stuff like the power inverters - one for each wheel?, the ABS, Air-con, power steering, radiator (inverters can produce a lot of heat). Take a look under the bonnet of a Nissan leaf, it's far from empty.

Personally I would have the trailer full of generator rather than battery. The car still has zero emissions without the trailer, and you could run the generator on red diesel as it's not for motive power - just for the air-con officer. Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

one for the vaners , get all the other vaners to empty their unmentionable tanks into your system and get free fuel all the way home.
http://www.sswm.info/category/implementati...aerobic-di

a bit like the back to the future delorean running on banana skins At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race