Fair comments from a UK perspective but the reality is that they can't afford to replace their car fleet with modern vehicles and if you are travelling around miles from anywhere you need something that is either fixable by a local guy (if available) or doesn't throw a wobbly when a sensor starts playing up. Remember how many times on this forum people ask for a good LR specialist in specific part of the UK. In Kenya there is one in Nairobi and that's it and there is no AA or RAC etc. It's a matter of ruggedness and practicality (which is why a lot of safari vehicles have TWO spare wheels on the back). Even my son's Toyota Hilux had a front suspension problem last week and had to be driven slowly by a company employee for 200km to get it fixed. That vehicle has done over 130k miles probably 75% off road.
Kenya is one of the more successful African economies (recent total ban on plastic bags, the mPesa electronic payment system and efforts to clean up and quite safe to be around ) but even here most of the cars used by locals are very old or they use cheap Chinese motorbikes or they walk. It's quite common to see lorries some of which have come down from Somalia or Ethiopia belching out black smoke going along the main roads but the police are more concerned with overloaded vehicles than air quality.

Having seen it first hand it does make me wonder why we are bothering with Euro 5 and 6 etc though when the real problems are elsewhere. And yes it's very different out there.

 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

Deleted - not helping conversation. MY 09 GS manual in Lago Grey, Wood Co arm rest and side bumper strips - now sold.

MY 15 SD4 SE Auto Orkney Grey with colour coded Bumper Door Mouldings

Last edited by tenet on 7th Oct 2019 12:52 pm. Edited 1 time in total

Yes I agree that any hire fleet would need to be basically run into the ground as there is not the money available for most companies to keep their fleets updated the way that they would do in the West. Going on holiday to Florida shortly and don`t expect my hire car to be more than 6 months old at the most where as in Tererife a couple of years ago I went with a local company rather than Hertz Avis etc and got a 12 year old Ford Focus with over 150,000kms on it but it did the job. Was in Kenya during the 70`s when there was still a large number of Land Rover series vehicles running about just before the influx of Japanese trucks which must have seemed lights years ahead at the time! Having said that not all the Japanese trucks are as tough as they might seem. A co -worker a few years back had Nissan buy back his Navara because the chassis had broken its back due to corrosion of the main chassis rails.

dondiddy wrote:

Y. A co -worker a few years back had Nissan buy back his Navara because the chassis had broken its back due to corrosion of the main chassis rails.

Boxbrownie wrote:

dondiddy wrote:

So are we to assume that African countries will be allowed to ignore climate change (If it exists) and continue to use old polluting vehicles moving forward.

We have several L200 and a Navara on the farm in Norfolk, they are all (except one) EU6 compliant and never see a dealer between oil changes, wouldn’t dream if using a Landrover (unfortunately) just not worth the hassle.

Not quite the same as the African bush but newer Toyota and Nissans WILL be just as reliable, it’s easy to fix a broken spring, bent steering arm, fractured chassis member than repair a puncture on a suspension airbag, dismantle and repair an electric steering rack or weld back the ripped off spring seat on a monocoque body.......

Spot on there David.
for years that's how any early Land Rovers survived, they could be repaired out in the bush,
I remember seeing a photo of a broken leaf spring
replaced with a tree branch back in the seventies it got them back home too
Dave DAVE.
I.A.M. F1rst Driver.
Gone 2003 Discovery TD5 Auto,
Gone 1986 Defender 90 Station Wagon
Gone 1984 Range Rover 3.5 Vogue Manual.
Gone 1970 Series 11A/3 SWB 3.5 V8 Hybrid
Gone 1964 Series 11A LWB Van
Gone 1966 Series 11A SWB Van
Gone 1964 Series 11A LWB Station Wagon,

The Financial Times includes a magazine every couple of weeks called "How to Spend it". It's full of outrageously priced jewelry, Rolexes etc etc, stuff for the seriously wealthy. This weekend they had a review of an executive jet (the Pilatus PC-24 known as the SUV of the sky as it can land on grass) and an article on investing in Series 1 Land Rovers and how you can get a rebuilt one from JLR Reborn Dept starting prices £75/80k upwards. They are regarded as "ultra cool urban vehicles".
I can now see where the Defender marketing people are going with this one. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

My 14 year old ford ranger just had a takata airbag recall, glad I never crashed it.

must say its been a reliable thing, only 49500 miles on clock so far, but its pretty poor on the road and average off road. the low seat makes your legs point out infront to reach pedals, not great for wellies as you need to pivot ankle a lot. I have a pair of old trainers in the cab for extended journeys. At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race

Air bags normally have a 10 year service life and then they are supposed to be changed but in reality that`s never going to happen due to the expense involved.

chicken george wrote:

My 14 year old ford ranger just had a takata airbag recall, glad I never crashed it.

must say its been a reliable thing, only 49500 miles on clock so far, but its pretty poor on the road and average off road. the low seat makes your legs point out infront to reach pedals, not great for wellies as you need to pivot ankle a lot. I have a pair of old trainers in the cab for extended journeys.

Yes.....Takata airbags! Oops.....the Japanese slipped on that one......absolute nightmare for so many auto makers.

I loved my Ranger, was a company car/truck and had the workshop make a roof treadplate area for photographing from (stationary of course), went all over Europe in it to motor shows although the route to Lommel was the most trod, I found it comfy if quite a bit agricultural and not as nice as the Exploder it replaced, I think the Ranger had about 80K miles on it when sent to the scrapper (all our work cars were scrapped at end of life) after about three years, it should have been handed back at one year but hey ho.....we kept it hidden  Regards

David

Lovely i6 has now gone, but not me......

Please let me know if anything in my post offends you, as I may wish to offend you again......

Lightwater wrote:

Defender Hype vs Defender Reality




To paraphrase - Exceptional offroader until you have an issue.

So your suspension airbag sensor fails during your overland tour - you even have a spare sensor - but you've got to get it to a JLR dealership to make it work.

Coils is the only way forward if the Defender wants to regain the credibility of the old Landrovers.


Also why cant all the vehicle electronic devices simply be plug-n-play like my PC and laptop ?? Jules

Will be interesting to see how the Ineos Grenadier turns out next year and whether it will take over the gap left when the Defender was 'modernised'.

I thought the new Defender had Software over the Airwves, so it could be diagnosed and set up remotely. Also with regards to the Ineos Grenadier, I have seen somewhere the starting price is around 35K. It will also have to meet EU emission standards and have all the other electric stuff that modern cars have, unless they can somehow wrangle out of it. Small volume manufacturer maybe? I somehow doubt that even the Grenadier will be fixed at the road side with a hammer and screwdriver.

jules wrote:

Defender Hype vs Defender Reality



To paraphrase - Exceptional offroader until you have an issue.

So your suspension airbag sensor fails during your overland tour - you even have a spare sensor - but you've got to get it to a JLR dealership to make it work.

Coils is the only way forward if the Defender wants to regain the credibility of the old Landrovers.


Also why cant all the vehicle electronic devices simply be plug-n-play like my PC and laptop ??

Is that all hard facts or just what people want to have you think? For example the Freelander throttle body is "supposed" to be calibrated to the car when a new one is fitted but plenty of people have fitted a new one and it has worked fine without calibration. As I understand it the new Defender "Is" available with coils instead of airbags. I would thing that you could still fit a new sensor and get away without dealer involvement in the bush although I can see the need for calibration to get the ride height correct at some point. Also if a sensor was to fail the ecu should have a default value to use so that the journey can continue until a repair can be effected. Do you think a 100 years ago there were similar discussions on the Model T forum when it was rumoured that solid rubber tyres were going to be replaced with new fangled pneumatic tyres that had air in them! What a stupid idea what with all those nails from horses shoes lying everywhere!