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Boxbrownie



Member Since: 17 Mar 2019
Location: Looe
Posts: 1974

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 i6 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

SteveC wrote:
Boxbrownie wrote:

Our i3 has cost us £160 a month over those almost seven years now all in, initial new cost, depreciation etc.


So what happens in a couple of years time when the batteries need replacing?

Who wants to buy a second-hand EV with only a couple of years battery life remaining?

Or will you pay the several thousand pounds to replace the batteries?


The same old same old stuff…..

Our i3 is almost (in one month) seven years old, the range we get now is within literally a few miles of what we got when it was brand new, in fact sometimes it is even more due to driving conditions so basically it hasn’t noticeably degraded at all, I don’t expect the battery to suddenly go awol anytime soon, the BMS on modern EVs are the best around and I won’t bring up the old one about Japanese Prius Taxis still running after 200K miles or more on the original battery Whistle

I am absolutely sure somebody would want to buy our i3 in a few years time when it might be worth maybe £15K or so and still has within 80-90% of original battery life left, hard to tell as the trade in values keep going up!

Your just bringing up the same old stories about battery life and doom sayer’s predictions, these aren’t mobile phones with “plug in and hope” charging design. Regards

David

Lovely i6 has now gone, but not me......

Please let me know if anything in my post offends you, as I may wish to offend you again......

Post #423888 4th Aug 2022 12:03 pm
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Lightwater



Member Since: 21 Aug 2014
Location: Sydney NB
Posts: 4062

Australia 2013 Freelander 2 2.0T SE Auto Fuji White

Batteries don't fall off a cliff. EVs have serious battery management.

Down under there are enough people with large batteries in their caravans to run air conditioning, induction cookers, microwave, boil water. They aren't going to simply abuse their batteries.

Have been reading about one setup with 9kWh & thinking of upgrading to 15kWh. You want these things to last. Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

Post #423890 4th Aug 2022 12:32 pm
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3landertwo



Member Since: 27 May 2020
Location: UK
Posts: 987

AT1963 wrote:

And as i have said and others have said...EVs for the well heeled Shocked


by "well heeled" you mean 'Footballer's Husbands' ......... just trying to be topical. Whistle

Post #423895 4th Aug 2022 4:00 pm
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Dartman the one



Member Since: 04 Apr 2013
Location: Seville, Spain
Posts: 1543

England 

The worst problem for an EV is a shorted cell, the fire hazard has largely been overcome by each cell isolated by fuses, but what the cost is for replacing individual cells is or if even it can be done, I don't know my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

Post #423896 4th Aug 2022 4:10 pm
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Sidthecat



Member Since: 10 Sep 2017
Location: Sarf-East London-sur-Mer
Posts: 1444

England 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Orkney Grey

3landertwo wrote:
AT1963 wrote:

And as i have said and others have said...EVs for the well heeled Shocked


by "well heeled" you mean 'Footballer's Husbands' ......... just trying to be topical. Whistle


If we’re being topical, wouldn’t that then be an RV or JV?

Post #423901 4th Aug 2022 6:12 pm
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Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 731

United Kingdom 2008 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

This battery suddenly dying story is such BS.
An engine can suddenly break (the JLR TDV6 is renowned for it), but an EV battery generally doesn't.
All that happens is a graduate loss of capacity over time, but this time scale is huge, like decades.
All modern BEVs have such good battery management that issues that effected the original Leaf aren't relevant now.
I'm pretty confident that the battery on a newer BEV will outlast the vehicle it's installed in.
This "it'll need a battery when it's a few years" is pure unsubstantiated rubbish.

Actually Jeremy Clarkson said this very thing about the first press Nissan Leaf he drove over a decade ago, well fun fact, that Nissan Leaf is still on the road a decade later, and still on its original battery. Thumbs Up 2009 Rimini Red SE, now mostly working as it should.

Post #423924 5th Aug 2022 6:47 pm
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Andy131



Member Since: 10 Dec 2009
Location: Manchester
Posts: 2067

United Kingdom 

Sadly a "battery" isn't a single unit, but a collection of cells. The whole is only as good as the weakest link, so if they were all in series, one dead cell = dead battery. Manufacturers are wise to this so that for example a Nissan Leaf 40kW battery has 320 individual cells, but they are arranged in banks, so an individual cell just corrupts a module taking out 7 other cells.

For a while companies such as Cleevely Electric Vehicles would replace individual packs (8 cells?) if your Leaf had a battery issue. They still sell EVs, but don't offer battery repairs due to the reliability issue of both the replacement and your original battery - if one pack has failed, others can fail soon after and the 1 year warranty becomes expensive for the garage.

There are companies on the web who will sell you individual modules fro a range of EV batteries, they make a living at it so pretending that batteries don't have issues is wrong.

It's a good sign, a faulty battery pack can be replaced rather than a whole battery, so buying a used EV with a faulty battery isn't the end of the world, then again playing with 800VDC for me is normal as is playing with 1,000 amps - preferable to stripping an auto transmission every day. Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Post #423943 6th Aug 2022 11:02 am
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3landertwo



Member Since: 27 May 2020
Location: UK
Posts: 987

Mazda offer an 8yrs warranty on their Panasonic battery pack. As used in the MX-30, only 'ALL' EV vehicle they make, which has an Hitachi motor.

Post #423946 6th Aug 2022 1:13 pm
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AT1963



Member Since: 23 Nov 2021
Location: Leicester
Posts: 139

United Kingdom 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Orkney Grey

So what is the answer?:

There are three issues:
1. Cost to buy in comparison to ICE and how long it will take to re-coup the outlay.
2. Cost of replacement batteries and how long they last
3. Manufacturing process and amount of CO2 used and how long before EV is carbon neutral

Lumping all this together and the fact that to date (certainly on lease) you keep car for 3 yrs and renew.
So when you get car new you are not helping to save the planet Rolling with laughter

Post #423952 6th Aug 2022 5:26 pm
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Sidthecat



Member Since: 10 Sep 2017
Location: Sarf-East London-sur-Mer
Posts: 1444

England 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Orkney Grey

All well and good, but you still need somewhere convenient to charge an EV - not everyone has that facility at home or locally. That’s the major drawback for me, assuming I was in the financial position to buy one

Post #423955 6th Aug 2022 7:58 pm
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AT1963



Member Since: 23 Nov 2021
Location: Leicester
Posts: 139

United Kingdom 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Orkney Grey

Of course...(didn't think of this)...cost of charging installation if able to install where you are.
Id rather spend money on solar panels, water collection and better options to heat home than charge a battery Thumbs Up

Post #423965 7th Aug 2022 11:47 am
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Andy131



Member Since: 10 Dec 2009
Location: Manchester
Posts: 2067

United Kingdom 

Just a thought, you know how the Inland Revenue likes it's pound of flesh, I wonder if being able to charge your vehicle at work could be a taxable perk - irrespective of you having an EV.

My Sister worked at the local hospital, they took an amount out of her wages every month for parking, the reason being if they didn't then it would be a taxable perk. This is a lass would has cycled Lands-End to John O Groats 4 or 5 times and only uses the car to go shopping.

A young Lass where I work has placed an order for a new electric Mini, she cannot park near home let alone charge at home. Work have no charging points, her plan was to go to Tesco, do her shopping have a coffee and charge there. I might have pointed out that a single charge was going to take 6-7 hours, and that they had a 2 hour limit for parking, and just how many times a week was she going to "shop". Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Post #423969 7th Aug 2022 12:53 pm
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BossBob



Member Since: 30 Sep 2010
Location: Bristol
Posts: 856

England 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Baltic Blue

AT1963 wrote:
Of course...(didn't think of this)...cost of charging installation if able to install where you are.
Id rather spend money on solar panels, water collection and better options to heat home than charge a battery Thumbs Up

Not if you can then use it later. I wouldn’t install solar panels without some kind of energy storage device. Selling your excess generation to the grid is now the equivalent of throwing money away!

Post #423971 7th Aug 2022 2:20 pm
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3landertwo



Member Since: 27 May 2020
Location: UK
Posts: 987

"....... energy storage device ........ "


Like Sand Batteries. it's the way forward.

Post #423973 7th Aug 2022 5:19 pm
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Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 731

United Kingdom 2008 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

BossBob wrote:
AT1963 wrote:
Of course...(didn't think of this)...cost of charging installation if able to install where you are.
Id rather spend money on solar panels, water collection and better options to heat home than charge a battery Thumbs Up

Not if you can then use it later. I wouldn’t install solar panels without some kind of energy storage device. Selling your excess generation to the grid is now the equivalent of throwing money away!


Not at all.
You use the electricity your panels generate in the daytime for washing, drying, dishwasher, heating hot water.
I save over £100 per month on my electricity, simply because I've got solar panels installed, and the more the electricity prices climb, the more I save. Yes storing the electricity makes more sense, but as batteries are expensive, the payback period is longer than the payback period of the panels alone, which currently is under 6 years 2009 Rimini Red SE, now mostly working as it should.

Post #423977 7th Aug 2022 10:41 pm
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