Forum-Gallery-Shop-Sponsors

« Advertise on Freel2.com

Home > Technical > Rocker and valve wear
Post Reply  Down to end
Page 2 of 3 <123>
Print this entire topic · 
Lucx



Member Since: 11 Jul 2022
Location: sud of italy
Posts: 9

Italy 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Santorini Black

Hello everyone, I had the same problem, I decided for the complete replacement of the engine, do you know if the DW12CTED4 or the DW12BTED4 is okay? I saw that the jaguar xf has the same engine but in a different position it would be compatible anyway?
Best regards

Post #423140 11th Jul 2022 9:26 am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: RO
Posts: 4603

Can you, please, tell us a few things about the history of the car?
Mileage, oil used, how often the oil was changed, how the car was used (street, off-road), etc.
Thank you!

Post #423143 11th Jul 2022 9:40 am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Lucx



Member Since: 11 Jul 2022
Location: sud of italy
Posts: 9

Italy 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Santorini Black

Hi Alex, certainly the 2009 car has 235,000 km, oil change every 10,000 oil I used the ravenol 5w30 c1 synthetic engine 152 hp, automatic transmission, used in both light off-road and road use

Post #423148 11th Jul 2022 10:43 am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
I Like Chips



Member Since: 25 Jun 2017
Location: Ascott Under Wychwood
Posts: 829

United Kingdom 2011 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Indus Silver

Has the car been remapped or had an EGR delete or blanking plate fitted. Do you know please

Post #423182 13th Jul 2022 10:01 am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Lucx



Member Since: 11 Jul 2022
Location: sud of italy
Posts: 9

Italy 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Santorini Black

Hello, the engine has been remapped, egr closure and collector without swirl. I am currently studying compatibility with newer engines of version 150 and 190, with the hope of solving the problem quickly.

Post #423216 13th Jul 2022 7:13 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 731

United Kingdom 2008 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

This design of PSA rockers have always been a bit iffy. They've use the same design for a couple of decades now. On high RPM engines, the spring can loose tension, allowing the rocker to wobble from side to side. This looseness causes accelerated rocker wear at the valve pad, and also causes damage to the top of the valve stem. The rocker itself has also been know to bend under sustained high RPM, which can cause it to displace the valve spring retainer collet, or the rocker can just fall out of its location altogether.

In this slower turning PSA engine, the main issue with the rocker is marginal lubrication up at the top of the engine. The rockers are lubricated by splash with oil spilled out from the cam bearings. There isn't very much oil splashing about at the top of this engine, so high quality oil and frequent changes are important. 2009 Rimini Red SE, now mostly working as it should.

Post #423221 13th Jul 2022 9:40 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
bernie7sk



Member Since: 23 Aug 2015
Location: bratislava
Posts: 7

Slovakia 2008 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Rimini Red

yes, according to the photos of the rocker arms from the first post, it is clear that the problem is in the lubrication. when some rockers are not wear or only a little. the question is whether the problem with lubrication is during continuous operation of the engine or during cold starts...?

I have an F2, 2.2, 2008, which has exactly 322,000 km, so I ask myself the following questions:

when the problem is a cold start-
-will oil with molybdenum help (it should protect during dry friction)? probably not because I saw an analysis of the old oil from the evoque 2.2, which had a high content of iron and silicon (high probability from the valves and rockers) despite the horsepower dose of molybdenum.
- will oil with ester oil (for motorcycles and sports cars) help, which should prevent the oil from completely draining from the lubricated parts when the engine is turned off? I do not know

when the problem is in normal engine operation -
- will increased revolutions help for stronger oil spraying near the rockers? e.g. use of "S" mode with autobox. I do not know.

it is certain that the difference between the upper and lower rocker in the photo was only the presence of oil, as Nodge68 writes above me. also in other photos of such rockers it is clear that the polished surfaces are caused by dry friction and the less damaged parts are dull, that is probably mixed friction. so the oil had access there more often

Post #423229 14th Jul 2022 7:40 am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Lucx



Member Since: 11 Jul 2022
Location: sud of italy
Posts: 9

Italy 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Santorini Black

Hi guys, then the good news is that the prerestyle engine is identical to the restyle, apart from the ECU and little things. the engine mounted on the jaguar xf is different as regards the attacks of the ptu etc. For wear I believe that the only help can be given by a 5w40 oil and using an additive for cleaning at each oil change is good luck. Unfortunately, finding a not too worn engine at human prices seems difficult right now. I will keep you updated ... my advice is cmq to enjoy the car and only if you happen to worry.

Post #423315 17th Jul 2022 10:06 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Lucx



Member Since: 11 Jul 2022
Location: sud of italy
Posts: 9

Italy 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Santorini Black


Some picture of






Post #423947 6th Aug 2022 1:31 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
I Like Chips



Member Since: 25 Jun 2017
Location: Ascott Under Wychwood
Posts: 829

United Kingdom 2011 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Indus Silver

The stuff that makes nightmares

Post #423951 6th Aug 2022 3:12 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 731

United Kingdom 2008 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

I've seen worse pistons. I replaced a worse one than that in my own Freelander.

Click image to enlarge
 2009 Rimini Red SE, now mostly working as it should.

Post #423976 7th Aug 2022 10:30 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Lucx



Member Since: 11 Jul 2022
Location: sud of italy
Posts: 9

Italy 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Santorini Black

Hi Nodge, yes my fear was the cylinder, so I'll do a rectification. I am convinced that the oil is not the problem but it is precisely in the design of the engine, I have the impression that the valves have too much play. So much so that the valve stop is stressed until the fall. I would be curious if this also happened to engines without dpf. In any case, did your rectification incorporate the diesel high pressure pump?

Post #423983 8th Aug 2022 12:41 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
bernie7sk



Member Since: 23 Aug 2015
Location: bratislava
Posts: 7

Slovakia 2008 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Rimini Red

I don't think it's the design of the valve mechanism itself. Even with the crashed engine, some rockers and valves are almost without wear. It is interesting that it is almost always cylinder 2. It is clear that the problem is in the oil supply. the mechanism can have oil either from the camshaft bearing or from the hydraulic lifter. The question is why there is a lack of it somewhere and what causes it.
The problem is that the oil pressure control is not connected to the warning light directly, but through the engine electronics, which turn a blind eye to the occasional loss of pressure. When changing the oil, I sometimes flush with 2 liters of oil. Once it happened that I only had 1 liter available. And so I tried. The light was not on, but the valves were rattling.
If we think about the approach to the oil filter and the professionalism of today's car mechanics, it may happen that the filter is not changed. A clogged filter only allows oil through the bypass valve, which cannot fully supply oil for the entire engine system, and the oil indicator light does not light up because the electronics are correct for the problem of occasional pressure drop.
It's just one of my speculations (see my previous post)

Post #423990 8th Aug 2022 2:01 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
I Like Chips



Member Since: 25 Jun 2017
Location: Ascott Under Wychwood
Posts: 829

United Kingdom 2011 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Indus Silver

Yes it's interesting that it always seems to effect no2 cylinder valves


I wonder if the plastic cam cover is designed to drip oil on the valves. It has two for want of a better description ears that fit between the cam lobes. These ears have cut outs that look like they should drop engine oil for lubrication on to the lobes.

What say the pundits

Post #424037 9th Aug 2022 3:39 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 731

United Kingdom 2008 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

The amount of valve tip wear is staggering, and the rocker pad wears fast too. This wear allows the rocker to move laterally, rather than being secured, increasing the rate of wear, but also putting undue strain on the retaining spring, which eventually fails to keep the rocker pressing on the valve tip, so it jumps off pressing against the valve spring retainer instead.

It could be a lubrication issue, but it's also a materials issue. The valve stems are very soft, is in they're easily filed down flat with a standard metal file. They're not hardened in any way, if they were a metal file would skate over the surface, but it doesn't. This is the main cause for the increasing valve clearance, which results in rocker looseness, and eventual displacement from it's operating position. 2009 Rimini Red SE, now mostly working as it should.

Post #424042 9th Aug 2022 5:30 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Post Reply  Back to top
Page 2 of 3 <123>
All times are GMT + 1 Hour

Jump to  
Previous Topic | Next Topic >
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Site Copyright © 2006-2022 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis
Freel2.com RSS Feed - All Forums


Switch to Mobile site