Forum-Gallery-Shop-Sponsors

« Advertise on Freel2.com

Home > Technical > Rocker and valve wear
Post Reply  Down to end
Page 3 of 5 <12345>
Print this entire topic · 
Lucx



Member Since: 11 Jul 2022
Location: sud of italy
Posts: 26

Italy 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Santorini Black

Interesting as a point of view. The oil filter should be checked. If this were the case, the use of a high viscosity oil (hths) could help.

Post #424043 9th Aug 2022 4:32 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
I Like Chips



Member Since: 25 Jun 2017
Location: Ascott Under Wychwood
Posts: 1417

United Kingdom 2011 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Indus Silver

Nodge I am surprised that the valves and rockers are not case hardened. Maybe it would make the metal brittle.

Post #424045 9th Aug 2022 4:51 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
bernie7sk



Member Since: 23 Aug 2015
Location: bratislava
Posts: 12

Slovakia 2008 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Rimini Red

I think that it doesn't fluctuate much from side to side. Because the pressure of the hydraulic valve lifter presses the roller of the rocker arm against the cam and thus it is balanced. according to the photo, the lubricated pairs of rocker arms and valves are fine, and the others in the same engine are completely worn. I also think it's because the worn valve stem and the hole in the rocker arm are visible first, and when they are too much together, then the rocker arm of the spring plate starts to touch. now I like chips gave me a thought when he mentioned the unfortunate venting of the valve block. By chance, there won't be a problem with engines that let a lot of gases through the piston rings? Maybe the robust flow of gases through the oil drain holes of head is pulling the oil off some rockers. But I don't think so mutch...

Post #424054 9th Aug 2022 6:20 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
I Like Chips



Member Since: 25 Jun 2017
Location: Ascott Under Wychwood
Posts: 1417

United Kingdom 2011 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Indus Silver

I see you are thinking that the flow of engine sump gases goes up through the holes in the cam cover rather than down to the cam. Now I am unsure of the direction of gas laden with oil droplets is it up and out through the PCV or down into the sump?

Post #424057 9th Aug 2022 7:13 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
bernie7sk



Member Since: 23 Aug 2015
Location: bratislava
Posts: 12

Slovakia 2008 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Rimini Red

ideally, the exhaust gases should be routed from under the pistons through a "maze" into the head vent, where oil vapors should be added and vacuum from the intake manifold should suck it all up. in fact, exhaust gases are pushed everywhere. but I can't imagine that drained oil from critical rockers would do it. but on the other hand I have not seen Mondeos and Transits with this engine with a worn valve and rocker arm. I really don't know, it's just speculation. in any case, when the place has oil, it can resist. the photos from the crashed engines always had some rockers with almost unmeasured wear and the cylinder two intake valve went down to the piston. otherwise heavily worn valves and rockers are always as polished - dry rub/no oil. less worn rockers have a matte finish - mixed friction.
the plan of lubrication channels or the entire lubrication system is childishly drawn in the manual. hard to deduce anything from it.
By the way, I have FL2 from 2008 and 323,000 km :O

Post #424062 9th Aug 2022 9:24 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 1766

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

I Like Chips wrote:
Nodge I am surprised that the valves and rockers are not case hardened. Maybe it would make the metal brittle.


It's normal for high stress components to be hardened, as it reduces surface wear.
What I was surprised to see was the variation in wear across all the valves and rockers in the same engine.
Some valves and it's paired rocker had zero wear, yet the valve and rocker next-door had messes of wear in both components. The valve and rocker with the wear also had a rocker which would be free to wobble from side to side when touched, but the wear free valve and rocker remained firmly secured in place.
On my old head, there was a huge variation in wear across all 16 valves and rockers, which was a surprise as wear rates should really be the same across the engine.

I've noticed that 1 of the tappets is beginning to tick in my new head, which considering it's only done 5k miles, I'm surprised to hear.
Could this be that valve wear is taking place already?, quite likely, but as the rest of the valve train is silent, I'm not overly worried about it. 2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. My daily driver.
Gone. 2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE.

Post #424068 10th Aug 2022 6:23 am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Lucx



Member Since: 11 Jul 2022
Location: sud of italy
Posts: 26

Italy 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Santorini Black

Where does the oil go first? first and second piston? It would be interesting to understand how many euro 3 engines have happened ... c1 oil has a different viscosity from a5. Has the Nodge cylinder head been rectified or new?

Post #424193 13th Aug 2022 7:11 am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 1766

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

Lucx wrote:
Where does the oil go first? first and second piston? It would be interesting to understand how many euro 3 engines have happened ... c1 oil has a different viscosity from a5. Has the Nodge cylinder head been rectified or new?

The oil pump is on the timing belt end of the engine, bolted to the side of the balancer shaft assembly, and driven by a chain from the crankshaft.
The oil then passes through the filter, then up a drilling in the block, which again is at belt end of the engine.
The rockers for the cylinders at the gearbox end of the engine will be the furthest away from the oil pump, but on a correctly designed oil supply system, that shouldn't matter at all.


My cylinder head was damaged at the same time the piston was.
I made a quick and dirty repair of the head, as at the time a decent replacement wasn't available for a sensible price. I drove it for about 12 months and 6k miles with a leaking inlet valve, as I couldn't cut the seat well enough for a good seal, but the engine ran well enough.

Then last May a low mileage (8k) SD4 head came up complete with cams at a spectacular price, so I bought it, cleaned it up properly, then installed it last October.
The engine was lovely and quite when the new head was installed, but I can definitely hear 1 tappet is now tucking, which is annoying, but I'm putting it down to engine design.

Apart from the crank sensor failing twice, and an occasional misfire under full throttle when cold, the engine runs beautifully.
I suspected I've a slightly iffy injector, but because it only misfires when cold under full throttle, it's pretty impossible to tell which injector is at fault, so I've left it, hoping it'll get worse one day. I've a replacement injector waiting to install, when I know which one it is. 2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. My daily driver.
Gone. 2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE.

Post #424197 13th Aug 2022 9:52 am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Lucx



Member Since: 11 Jul 2022
Location: sud of italy
Posts: 26

Italy 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Santorini Black

My idea is that a part of the engine is not properly lubricated, probably in the ignition cycles, the engines with dpf use low viscosity oil therefore a fast flow but which in the shutdown phase makes the oil flow quickly into the sump ... .is just an idea

Post #424200 13th Aug 2022 10:48 am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 1766

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

All the DW12 engines use the same grade of oil, which is a 5w30 fully synthetic.
The only difference for a DPF engine is the oil needs to be a low ash formulation, so as to not soot up the DPF. The DPF engine still uses a 5w30 grade though. 2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. My daily driver.
Gone. 2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE.

Post #424224 13th Aug 2022 7:36 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Lucx



Member Since: 11 Jul 2022
Location: sud of italy
Posts: 26

Italy 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Santorini Black

yes it is true but between c1 and a5 the hths index often changes

Post #424227 13th Aug 2022 11:55 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Lucx



Member Since: 11 Jul 2022
Location: sud of italy
Posts: 26

Italy 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Santorini Black


Soon I will check if this cylinder head can be rectified and I have found the engine lubrication diagram

Post #424251 14th Aug 2022 10:47 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
jules



Member Since: 13 Dec 2007
Location: The Wilds of Warwickshire
Posts: 4517

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 SE Auto Firenze Red

Just wondering if at 146K miles under its belt, the engine was getting a bit worn and oil pressure was on the low side and causing oil starvation in the cylinder head.
Lots of cold starts and short journeys maybe, causing premature wear ? I 'm guessing obviously. Jules

Post #424254 15th Aug 2022 7:11 am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Lucx



Member Since: 11 Jul 2022
Location: sud of italy
Posts: 26

Italy 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Santorini Black

When disassembling the engine, I was able to check some play in the oil pump due to wear of the gear.

Post #424257 15th Aug 2022 9:19 am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
I Like Chips



Member Since: 25 Jun 2017
Location: Ascott Under Wychwood
Posts: 1417

United Kingdom 2011 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Indus Silver

Live values on a code reader will give you the oil pressure, but of course the engine needs to be running

Post #424270 15th Aug 2022 8:32 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Post Reply  Back to top
Page 3 of 5 <12345>
All times are GMT

Jump to  
Previous Topic | Next Topic >
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Site Copyright © 2006-2024 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis
Freel2.com RSS Feed - All Forums


Switch to Mobile site