This is the code for 'Long Cranking'

P0A0F68 - Engine failed to start Long cranking time No action necessary. - Code for information only.


Another thought - Is there a slight leak in the low pressure side of your fuel system - This may allow a very little air into the system when stopped for a long time.

Lift Pump
A fuel lift pump is mounted to the rear of the fuel pump, and forms an integral assembly with the HP pump. The fuel lift
pump is a gear type pump and connected to the fuel filter supply line. The lift pump creates a vacuum (negative pressure)
in the supply line to the fuel tank, and draws the fuel from the tank. The fuel passes through the fuel filter and is then
delivered at lift pump pressure to the HP pump inlet port.

The lift pump normal operating, negative pressure values are shown for the following engine conditions:
Engine Condition Lift Pump Negative Pressure
Cranking -133 ± 7 mbar (-10 ± 0.5 cmHg)
Full load -267 ± 133 mbar (-20 ± 10 cmHg)

PS I know some of these things that I am suggesting may be far fetched, but you say that all the normal things have been checked by experts. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 85k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 12th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Hi Oz
Sorry to hear you are having a similar issue. Lets hope we can find a solution for us both. Someone must have had this issue before and found the problem, after all it is a Landrover, they are always going wrong.

Ian
I appreciate you going ito such depth with this but the fuel pressure does not appear to be an issue. The fuel pressure reaches the required value almost instantly the engine starts to crank over.
As I mentioned earlier there are no codes reported when scanned by SDD.
Again that is the issue for the garage. It would appear that mechanics/technicians are trained to follow the instructions of the diagnostic software to resolve a fault. If the computer doesn't find a fault code they don't know what to do and they are left to just clutch at straws. I could be sounding a bit unfair but that is my assessment at the moment.
I mentioned earlier that one of the things they wanted to do was put an ender scope into the fuel tank to look for contaminants. When I suggested that any contaminants would block the fuel filter first and the old one was clean, that was abandoned.

Brief update for today.
Called at the garage this morning and found my car standing in the corner of the compound, not being worked on. It would appear that some very expensive Range Rovers required attention. Obviously more important than my Freelander.
Their reason, waiting for a workshop bay to become vacant as they wanted to remove the injectors and have them tested.

I still think the engine is running too rich. My reason being, increased fuel consumption, carbon build up on the exhaust side of the turbo but most importantly a diesel engine that is cold will struggle to start if the fuel/air mix is too lean or too rich. However once warm it is more likely to be able to cope with incorrect fuel/air mix on start up.

We shall see what the next couple of days brings.

If I am wrong I am quite happy to eat a large slice of humble pie................I just want it fixed.  Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

My thought from Page 1 of the thread was an LP system leak allowing air in - you say that the required pressure is met (presumably HP sensor reading?) but given the troubles with getting these engines going if you don't change the fuel filter properly, I would be looking at a temporary analogue gauge on the LP side, plus looking for entrained air with a clear piece of line - air getting into the HP side would still allow you to achieve pressure. (but not sure if there is a bleed on the HP?)

Hope you are successful in your quest! 2000 Xei 1.8 gone
2004 HSE Td4 Auto, MT's, sump guard, sliderz - gone
2014 GS Man - AT's, Mantec Sump guard and tank guard, split charger in boot, towbar, work in progress...

Hi Simong_uk

I would agree with you.
I did have an issue with air entering at one of the fuel filter connections but that was fixed some time ago. You can see via the clear fuel lines, there is no air bubbles in the fuel lines now. The garage has also done a leak off test at the injectors. It would appear both high and low pressure fuel sides are ok. Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Looks like everyone has run out of suggestions. Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Obviously there is no feedback from the garage

As the FL2 has lots and lots of sensors, I find it hard to believe that there is not a trail of error codes being left (even if they say no further action as above).

Just about everything is controlled and monitored by electronic modules who freely exchange information from all those sensors. Garages that use guesswork will turn out to be more time consuming and expensive in the end.

To fire up engine also requires air, so my next 'odd' suggestion - is the throttle body flap sticking shut or partially open?

See this thread - partially similar to yours?

https://www.freel2.com/forum/topic19427.ht...grey+smoke FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 85k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 12th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Correct....... still nothing from the garage.

As I have said from the beginning there are no codes according to JLR SDD. Granted I have an older version but it is still relevant for my year of car. The garage l am using is a fully equipped LR specialist. They sometimes take vehicles that dealers can't fix. They are actually rammed with work and I think that also has an impact on my repair.

As for the throttle body, I removed and cleaned it recently. I then left it disconnected from the manifold and checked the operation of flap mechanism. All works fine. Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

2 things come to mind, grey smoke at start up is indicitive of fuel partially combusting. so i would suggest fitting a clear tube on the fuel line to ensure no bubbles of air are appearing in the line. I know you said fuel pressure is reached within 2 seconds, but is this from live data ? if so live data runs behind real time. 2nd I would recommend a compression test. if the compression is lower than the threshold a vehicle will take longer to fire and normally run rough for a few seconds. This is a test that is often overlooked. Some diagnostic testers will allow a compression test by simply crancking in compression test mode , this takes seconds and it measures the cranckshaft rotaional speed per cylinder whilst keeping injectors off. Jaguar x-type sport gone
Jaguar x-type 2.2d sport one of my best cars ever sadly gone
Freelander 2 GS auto 2008 most unreliable ever ! gladly gone
Freelander 2 GS manual 2013 only time will tell !

Welcome to the discussion Oldgeezer.
Like you, I have always suspected some form of fuel issue resulting in incomplete combustion. However once started there is no hesitation or rough running of the engine. There has been an increase in fuel consumption, hence me thinking it's a fuel issue.

Bit of an update.
Called in at the garage this morning, as I was passing. They are confident they know what the issue is and are waiting for parts.
I won't say anymore on that until they have tried it. Hopefully by tomorrow.  Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

gasman
Any luck with the fix?

No..... Still waiting.

For a garage that only does Landrover vehicles, I think they are embarrassed to phone me to say they got it wrong again.
Last week they said it was the injectors. Thing is car has only done about 68k and I put a new filter on every year. I also run a diesel purge through the system every couple of years. Therefore I don't see how the injectors could be at fault. Injectors should last about 100k.

So short answer..... still not fixed. Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

New update.
I have just been back to the garage to see the report for the injectors. This place is rubbish with customer service. Car has been with them almost three weeks and I have had only one phone call.

Anyway this is the report from the independent fuel injector specialist.

4x injectors tested

During test, test bench performs multiple electrical tests.

Injectors are required to have a piezo circuit resistance of between 180k ohms and 200k ohms.

All injectors found to have less than 50k ohms each.

My question is this, how did the car run without issue once started if the injectors were so bad.

Could really do with some technical input here.

The next issue is that now the new injectors have been fitted, I am told the car is now throwing an error code for the EGR valve, which I didn't have before.
They now want to take that off and have a look.

Need some help.  Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Here’s a link to injector control
https://autoditex.com/page/common-rail-inj...-26-1.html

I can’t add much as to why they all have failed together, and why they work after a longer crank.

With 1/3rd the resistance , the volts may be pulled down such that the piezos don’t move as much and so throttle the fuel too much. As the circuit heats up the resistance climbs allowing the volts to rise and so injectors open further???

EGR , classic , you work on an engine long enough you start break things..

Hi Andy
Thanks for the article. Didn't understand all of it but very interesting. Now I know why injectors are so expensive.
As far as the egr is concerned. I was told that it had passed an electrical test but was now throwing a fault code and occasionally causing poor starting. Can't see how it would cause poor starting, yes poor idle and rough running.
I won't know any more now till Monday Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.