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IanMetro



Member Since: 11 Sep 2017
Location: Somerset BS21
Posts: 2773

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 Metropolis LE Auto Fuji White

I am sure that poor starting AND white smoke are the classic glow plug symptoms.

The smoke indicates that fuel is present and burning in the exhaust system.

Not sure if these will help?

These are the inputs to ECM - Glow Plugs

https://www.freel2.com/gallery/albums/user...0Plugs.pdf

And

This Video is on YouTube about fault finding on Glow Plugs

 FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 76k+ miles) (MY2015)

Post #416394 28th Dec 2021 12:10 am
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gasman



Member Since: 02 May 2013
Location: Tyneside
Posts: 857

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4_e GS Manual Zermatt Silver

Wow......What a lot of sudden interest. Much appreciated. Thumbs Up

I will try and answer in order.

Jules
My reasoning here being, that if we look at the basics first. A diesel engine requires three things to work. 1/ fuel 2/air 3/compression. Then there are two variables 1/ injection timing 2/ air/fuel mixture.
We have the basics because the engine runs normally. The variables will determine how well it will run and how easy it will start.
Now I know I am being simplistic here and the engine is vastly more complex but it still comes down to basics to run.
The only variable I think that could inhibit a cold start ( by that I don't mean below 0 deg.) would be the fuel mixture, i.e. not enough fuel.
According to the live data the coolant sensor is reading correctly. I haven't tried putting it in water yet.

Andy131
Oil temperature sensor.
Good call, I also thought that a couple of months back.
Changed it, made no difference.

IanMetro
Yes you are correct, there should be a prize. Forum should make that person a 'Technical Supremo' for succeeding where the professionals appear to be failing.

pinhead
I have checked live data and so has the garage 'Landrover Specialists'. I only changed the sensors to see if it made a difference.
If it was a damaged wire in the loom then surely this would affect starting all the time, not just when it has been standing.

IanMetro
Correct what you are saying regarding the glow plugs on most cars. However the Freelander does not require the glow plugs until the temperature in the coolant has dropped to a pre determined level and therefore would not normally be energised.
I can't remember what that temperature is but it usually equals approx 0deg air temp.
This has had the same problem right through the summer. Up here we actually reached 20 deg. at one point and it still would not start correctly. Anyway glow plugs were replaced a couple of years ago and I tested them again whilst I had the inlet manifold off to remove the swirl flaps.


Now if anything I have said doesn't make sense, just remember I am not a mechanic just a Landrover owner. Please jump in and correct me. Thumbs Up Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Post #416411 28th Dec 2021 6:34 pm
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jules



Member Since: 13 Dec 2007
Location: The Wilds of Warwickshire
Posts: 4571

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 SE Auto Firenze Red

we're all rooting for yer man. Thumbs Up Jules

Post #416413 28th Dec 2021 7:04 pm
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Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 1824

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

Is the fuel draining back to the tank after shutdown? This could happen if there's a leaking O ring at the filter. 2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Soon to be sold.
Hyundai Ionic 5 Ultimate on order.
Gone. 2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE.

Post #416422 28th Dec 2021 8:29 pm
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alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: RO
Posts: 4640

Sorry if it was discussed, but is the 10 bar relief valve on the return pipes in all its minds?

Post #416433 29th Dec 2021 9:11 am
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gasman



Member Since: 02 May 2013
Location: Tyneside
Posts: 857

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4_e GS Manual Zermatt Silver

Nodge
No. Fuel is not draining back. All the fittings are tight. Also no leak back from the injectors. Wish it was that simple.

Alex
Thanks for joining in.
Sorry but I do not know what this valve is.
Could you explain a little more please. Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Post #416462 29th Dec 2021 11:44 pm
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IanMetro



Member Since: 11 Sep 2017
Location: Somerset BS21
Posts: 2773

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 Metropolis LE Auto Fuji White

I think Alex talks about the valve in this thread from 2016, he is the best source of information on this forum,

https://www.freel2.com/forum/topic27225-15.html

Also while searching around for LR2 Fuelling Info I came across this video which points out some of the bits

 FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 76k+ miles) (MY2015)

Post #416468 30th Dec 2021 12:21 am
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alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: RO
Posts: 4640

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

Post #416471 30th Dec 2021 9:23 am
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gasman



Member Since: 02 May 2013
Location: Tyneside
Posts: 857

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4_e GS Manual Zermatt Silver

Thanks again for all the useful input.

Alex, I think that suggestion could be a winner. Thumbs Up

As the returns are under pressure I could not do a normal leak off test myself but the garage assures me they have and it past.
However I don't know if they checked this high pressure non return valve. I'll be honest I had no idea what that was, I assumed it was just a connector.
These are my fuel readings, can you tell me if they make sense or does it relate to a faulty valve.

Engine off no fuel pressure
Engine cranking 317 bar almost instantly
Engine at idle 248 bar
Engine at 1000rpm 298 bar
Engine at 1500rpm 448 bar
Engine at 2000rpm 600 bar

Turn engine off, rail pressure drops to 0 almost instantly.

These readings were taken with an Autel scan tool as I do not know how to do it with SDD, if it is possible.
Therefore I don't know how accurate the readings are. That said it appears to read all live data accurately.

Would like to know anyone's thought's Bow down Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Post #416488 30th Dec 2021 2:59 pm
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oldgeezer



Member Since: 09 Apr 2011
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 1302

United Kingdom 2013 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Baltic Blue

If you can accurately measure fuel rail pressure, ideally with a scope then the rail pressure should hold for approx. 10 secs after it shuts down. if it drops instantly then its either a rail return pressure valve fault or injector. Jaguar x-type sport gone
Jaguar x-type 2.2d sport one of my best cars ever sadly gone
Freelander 2 GS auto 2008 most unreliable ever ! gladly gone
Freelander 2 GS manual 2013 only time will tell !

Post #416630 3rd Jan 2022 10:21 pm
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gasman



Member Since: 02 May 2013
Location: Tyneside
Posts: 857

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4_e GS Manual Zermatt Silver

Thanks for jumping in Oldgeezer.

All four injectors have been replaced.
That just leaves the 10 bar none return value on the fuel return line as Alex suggested.
As I said previously, I had no idea what that part was.
I'll put this new information to the garage when I take it back next week. It has to be a better option than the high pressure fuel pump as they suggested. Thumbs Up Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Post #416633 3rd Jan 2022 11:12 pm
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gasman



Member Since: 02 May 2013
Location: Tyneside
Posts: 857

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4_e GS Manual Zermatt Silver

Quite a few people are steering towards a leak back issue for this fault. If this was the issue, surely it would be a hard start almost every time. If it has stood for about an hour, it will start straight away. I really don't know at what the maximum time is before it acts up is.
Any more thoughts. Whistle Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Post #416656 4th Jan 2022 1:35 pm
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shiggsy



Member Since: 13 Jan 2013
Location: Kent
Posts: 791

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Baltic Blue

Pehaps when the engine cools down enough something has contracted enough to allow a leak. 
Hung like Einstein, smart as a horse.

Post #416658 4th Jan 2022 2:06 pm
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gasman



Member Since: 02 May 2013
Location: Tyneside
Posts: 857

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4_e GS Manual Zermatt Silver

Hi Shiggsy.

I suppose anything is possible.

Think it might be that it's POSSESED Twisted Evil Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Post #416664 4th Jan 2022 4:49 pm
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jules



Member Since: 13 Dec 2007
Location: The Wilds of Warwickshire
Posts: 4571

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 SE Auto Firenze Red

It's not called Christine by any chance is it ? Jules

Post #416667 4th Jan 2022 6:13 pm
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