Have read a little about the new Honda CRV Hybrid - sounds like a different take on the hybrid drive set up to that we see commonly.

https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/coming-soon/hybrid.html

Not sure how it would work out for the vaners among us though. Andrew

That is the most sensible system for a Hybrid, if it requires high power for high sudden loads it is available. Whether the petrol engine needs to be connected to the axles is moot, it may be a belt and braces system or cutting down on costs by using less powerful alternators and motors to give the same instant power when needed.
With regard to towing one would expect better fuel consumption with the same power available as a diesel, this would mainly be due to the braking and downhill battery charging, though with an all electric drive with no mechanical connection to the wheels I would have thought would be more efficient, though possibly the cabling required to produce 150KW at about 50-100v may be excessive and not practical at 12v or 24v.
I suppose the most efficient would be considered very high voltages in cars and whether the powers that be would want cars rushing about generating 500v to maybe 2000v to cut weight, many ships now use 5000v propulsion systems driving multiple trainable pods instead shafts. my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/honda/cr-v/9...d-pictures

As I read it the system has only one gear ratio and uses only the electric motor (and not petrol motor) to drive the wheels at low speed.

Therefore you start off with a petrol/electric generator providing power for the electric motor to drive the wheels.

The system seems very like the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, although that uses a GKN Clutch/Gearing Unit, to join up Petrol Motor to Front Wheels when conditions/speed allow.

No separate power or torque for either the petrol or more importantly the electric motors seem to be available or quoted.

Low torque could make it unsuitable for towing high loads away from standstill.

Also as it's non plug in you can't make use of the duty free(ish) fuel - mains electricity.

Although they seem to think that this is an advantage.
No need to plug in
The great thing about the hybrid is that you don’t need to look for a charging station, or have a special plug socket installed at home. The engine will continually charge the battery while it’s running – all you have to do is fill up with petrol as you normally would.
?????

edited to try to make my comments clearer FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 82k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Last edited by IanMetro on 20th Nov 2018 12:37 am. Edited 1 time in total

Apart from some energy recovery via the braking system I can't really see how this helps. (Remember the first law of thermodynamics ie energy can neither be created nor destroyed?) At the end of the day you need fuel in it to make it go and it just looks like a more complicated petrol vehicle that might be a bit more efficient. In short it's the worst of both worlds, I thought electric cars were going to get more simple and save £££s on servicing costs. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

https://www.gov.uk/plug-in-car-van-grants

Now that Government Grants have all but stopped except for EVs, I think that unless you can travel on electric only in cities (and save on soon to be announced 'Road Pollution Charges) there is no incentive to Private Buyers to take this type of vehicle.

Although now the Government may be planning to tax (Fuel Efficient) Diesel Vehicles off the road. Especially so if tax is put on mileage, instead of fuel, to recover revenue lost on electric vehicles. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 82k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

I’ll be having a look at the Evoque hybrid once it’s launched in 2020, I’m hoping it will be self charging rather than plug in but I doubt it. Can’t be doing with all this plugging cars in malarkey. 21MY Defender 90 S 3.0 D200

For many more years than I care to remember I was a forklift truck "engineer" - they are called technicians now.
There was a Forklift manufactured by Still, this had a Mercedes engine coupled to a generator, this then powered an electric forklift. So the engine sat where the large lead acid battery would normally be.

Now the engine ran at an almost constant low speed (lets say 900-1100 rpm), and only revved up when fast hydraulics or high speed was required. Upshot was they were very fuel efficient compared to every other gas/diesel engine forklift, and unlike normal electric forklifts didn't need a battery swap every shift.

The forklifts were far more expensive than the competition, but the fuel saving, lower emissions and not needing two extra batteries and chargers in some cases made them the obvious option.

A similar system would work in a car, but it has two disadvantages 1) it's very expensive to make. 2) it makes vehicle electrics a lot more complicated.

Oh the Merc engines were long lasting, but when they were worn, they didn't have proper cylinder liners (nikasil coating) so couldn't be rebored, so you threw the forklift away! because a brand new Merc engine was a ridiculous price. Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Formula 1, there are rules and limitations of how additional electrical energy is used, but the basics are:

20kg battery returning up to 120kW (approximately 160bhp) power to the drivetrain from the Energy Store. That means drivers have access to an additional 160bhp or so for approximately 33 seconds per lap.


https://jalopnik.com/how-formula-ones-amaz...1506450399

https://www.formula1.com/en/championship/i...stems.html

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=de...ajaxhist=0 Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

It says no need to plug in, not that it can't be plugged in, so a bit vague.
Torque in electric motors is governed by Amps, higher the Amps drawn the more copper is required to reduce heat loss, heat loss is power loss, power loss costs money as it costs in fuel whether freeish (plug in) or fuel for the engine, but results in shorter ranges. my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

It is not a Plug-in Hybrid, but as you say it is all a bit vague, we need to know the separate power outputs of the Engine, Motor Generator, and Electric Drive Motor, aswell as the Battery Capacity.

A look at the Outlander PHEV Forum will give you some idea of the complexities of having this type of Motor Generating / Electric Drive with no gearbox. You will see that as the PHEV developed over the years of proper use, changes had to be made, including extra control over the batteries state of charge. This was because you did not want to be left with a low battery as you approached a long motorway incline, especially when towing.

http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=9 FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 82k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

As you say it's a bit vague, it's almost as if the Honda engineers have cobbled something together and the marketing people are trying to make the best of it.
I was talking recently to a guy who has a BMW i3 company car and he has a job entailing driving around between appointments selling solar panels and can do 150 miles or more a day and he said that generally it will just about go all day without a charge. He opted for a version with a small petrol engine in the boot which just charges the battery if you are getting low, it doesn't actually power the car. However for having this employer has to pay £130 road tax. Overall his view was that it's a very expensive car for what it does and he wouldn't buy one yet with his own money. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

IanMetro wrote:

Low torque could make it unsuitable for towing high loads away from standstill.

Thanks Jules for link to Honest John.
It does say that the max torque available from the electric motor is 232ft/lbs. I take it this is initially just as you get going.

As you can see from below, as this torque drops off with speed, the petrol engine is able to provide the engine will start to be able provide some direct power above 25mph. This, of course, will be limited by the single speed gearing, and the fact that it is an Atkinson Cycle engine. I imagine that up to about 50mph the engine will need to declutch from wheels if it is needed to provide more power than the geared revs allow.

Useful quote from Honest John
Normally at up to 25mph, drive is 82% EV and 18% hybrid. Between 25mph and 50mph it’s 50% EV, 16% hybrid and 34% petrol motor. From 50mph to 75mph it’s 23% EV, 16% hybrid and 61% petrol motor. Over 75mph, except on long descents, it’s mostly all petrol motor.

A study of the Outlander PHEV Forum will help understand the limitations and advantages of this kind of Hybrid. The Power & Torque available at the Wheels changes depending on lots of things.

As I have said before, I was quite interested in getting an Outlander PHEV, but I became more and more addicted to the reliable 187bhp and 310ft/lbs, at almost any speed, that the Freelander provides. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 82k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

1KW/h battery has only minutes of power so except for initial take off the electric power is from the generator, there is no mention of voltage so probably 12v or 24v, range is said to be 1.2miles on battery alone, so yes the engine is running at over 90% of the time despite the advertising blurb. I like the term it can't tow heavy caravans, perhaps it should read it can't tow many caravans, there just ain't many vans under 1000kgs unless you go back to the 60's.
Seems to be a cobbled together low tech car to jump on a bandwagon and may well be disappointing in the everyday world both in performance and economy, may even exceed it's claimed emissions in the UK , a Norfolk, Suffolk Lincolnshire car maybe. Oh it can't be plugged in my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.