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AlinC



Member Since: 15 Sep 2018
Location: Cluj
Posts: 7

Romania 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 XS Auto Ipanema Sand
Rocker and valve wear

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Hi, it seems that due to a rocker excessive wear a valve fell into the cylinder and damaged the piston and the engine head. I bought a "new" second hand engine head but the valves and rockers doesn´t look too good also. Could anyone tell me if the center rocker in the picture is acceptable (and the valve, of course) or they must have a shiny surface? Is there a near risk to happen the same thing in the near future?

Thanks,
Alin

2,2 Diesel 2009

Post #358842 17th Oct 2018 10:20 am
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Yorky Bob



Member Since: 28 Apr 2015
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 4561

United Kingdom 2013 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Firenze Red

Never stripped down this engine type but looking at the top of the valve in the second picture I would say its an abused engine unit and try and get your money back. FL2 MY10 TD4 GS traded in at 2 years
FL2 MY13 TD4 GS Current

Post #358863 17th Oct 2018 1:37 pm
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AlinC



Member Since: 15 Sep 2018
Location: Cluj
Posts: 7

Romania 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 XS Auto Ipanema Sand

Thanks for your answer!

Unfortunately it´s not going to happen, the car was bought in Germany, so I´ll have to find a solution to save the engine. In your opinion the ugly textured surface of the valve and the rocker is going to wear very fast from now? Should I buy new components and change them?

Thanks, Alin

Post #358866 17th Oct 2018 2:06 pm
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alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Constanta
Posts: 4076

Romania 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto Alaska White

It seems that it's a(nother) known problem for engines with high mileage.
Here's a material, from our Russian colleagues.
The effects of the problem at 2:45
The problem is discussed in detail at 9:13.



And this one, at 8:15 and 9:15

 Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads... Go beyond !

Post #358963 18th Oct 2018 10:07 pm
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MRRover75



Member Since: 13 Jan 2017
Location: Sandnes
Posts: 206

Norway 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Manual Tambora Flame

Great informative videos Smile

Another thread feeding the growing paranoia to a high mileage car owner... Think I need a forum detox for a few months... Very Happy Very Happy
-07, 245000km, still on the same drivetrain as it left the factory with (and clutch!). Only had the rear diff rebuilt. Regular servicing since new and still going strong, but for how long??? Camshaft, clutch and turbo paranoia is always in the back of my head.

Post #358967 19th Oct 2018 7:04 am
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Yorky Bob



Member Since: 28 Apr 2015
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 4561

United Kingdom 2013 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Firenze Red

But you are having regular servicing and combine that with the best oils so you can sleep at night. FL2 MY10 TD4 GS traded in at 2 years
FL2 MY13 TD4 GS Current

Post #358973 19th Oct 2018 8:27 am
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alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Constanta
Posts: 4076

Romania 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto Alaska White

I am used to change the oil about 10000 km (6000 miles).
The problem is that the oil I've used in the past has become less and less qualitative. I mean Castrol A5.
After only 2000 km (1250 miles) since last change, is like water. Both visually and the feeling when you rub it between two fingers.
I don't want to imagine how it will look such oil after 24000 km (15000 miles) how LR suggests, if after a tenth of that period it looks that way. And the effect it will have on the internal parts of the engine.

For the moment I've switched to Motul Specific 913D and it seem that the engine is sounding much better and also the organoleptic feel is much more "oily".
In my opinion, an 5W40 oil like VW 505.01 used on PD TDI engines is much more indicated, because that one was specifically designed to withstand the additional valve train forces necessary actuating the pump injectors.
The thing with fuel economy of 913A/B/C/D oils are rubbish in my opinion, on this particular application. Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads... Go beyond !

Post #358979 19th Oct 2018 9:15 am
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MRRover75



Member Since: 13 Jan 2017
Location: Sandnes
Posts: 206

Norway 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Manual Tambora Flame

I have been using TOTAL 5W30 QUARTZ 9000 FUTURE NFC 5L the two last times. I have no idea about the quality of this oil but guess everything is better than "noname" oils...???

Post #359661 30th Oct 2018 10:27 am
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ozjeff62



Member Since: 28 May 2018
Location: Sydney, NSW
Posts: 61

Australia 

I'm not following this. How does rocker wear allow a valve to fall into the cylinder? The rocker arm forces the valve into the cylinder against the pressure of the valve spring. If the rocker arm wears the valve won't go into the cylinder.

If you're using the same oil and it's degrading so more quickly I'd suggest your engine is developing excess heat, or perhaps diesel is diluting the oil. That's possible if your rings aren't sealing which is quite likely in a high mileage engine.

Time for a rebuild.

My thoughts.

Post #359666 30th Oct 2018 1:20 pm
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Yorky Bob



Member Since: 28 Apr 2015
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 4561

United Kingdom 2013 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Firenze Red

It all to do with the general degradation. Valves do drop and can also stick in the guides due to heat and poor lubrication. FL2 MY10 TD4 GS traded in at 2 years
FL2 MY13 TD4 GS Current

Post #359667 30th Oct 2018 1:32 pm
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alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Constanta
Posts: 4076

Romania 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto Alaska White

ozjeff62 wrote:
I'm not following this. How does rocker wear allow a valve to fall into the cylinder?
The rocker arm forces the valve into the cylinder against the pressure of the valve spring.
If the rocker arm wears the valve won't go into the cylinder.

As in the OP picture, the valve tip is wearing the rocker arm, which develop a hole, through which the valve tip will protrude.
In that moment, the rocker arm will not press onto the valve stem/tip anymore, but will press onto the laterals of the spring retainer.
And once you press onto the retainer, the half collets will eventually come/fall out, allowing the stem/valve to fall into cylinder.

 Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads... Go beyond !

Post #359685 30th Oct 2018 5:27 pm
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ozjeff62



Member Since: 28 May 2018
Location: Sydney, NSW
Posts: 61

Australia 

Ah, I see. I couldn't tell what I was looking at in the pics. All I can say is Holy Crap. I've had some high mileage cars (I have a 1962 Falcon) but I've never seen a rocker arm wear like this. Terrible!

Cheers all

Post #359717 31st Oct 2018 11:02 am
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juarodri



Member Since: 01 Sep 2015
Location: Argentina
Posts: 48

I had this same issue 2 weeks ago. As Alex mentioned, one of the half collets came off, and one intake valve dropped onto the piston Mad
230000 km on the clock

Post #365147 31st Jan 2019 6:45 pm
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AlinC



Member Since: 15 Sep 2018
Location: Cluj
Posts: 7

Romania 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 XS Auto Ipanema Sand

Sorry to hear that! My car was for about 3 month in a repair shop and even after a full engine head restoration the engine doesn't run very smooth. Cold start is tricky, and the rockers are noisy at idle. Maybe it would be a better option to buy another engine.

Good luck with your decision!

Post #366101 10th Feb 2019 3:22 pm
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juarodri



Member Since: 01 Sep 2015
Location: Argentina
Posts: 48

Thanks! My car is in the repair shop now, cylinder head being rebuilt... I guess it will be ready in 2 weeks. I'll share the results when I get it back.

Post #366132 11th Feb 2019 4:00 am
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