Came across this by chance.

Think I'll stick with my Ford Freelander for as long as I can.

 Jules

My thoughts exactly Jules……..!🤪
Very interesting video…….doesn’t show the designers or dealers in a good light……!

Pete…. FL2 SD4 HSE Lux Auto MY 2012— current
D2 TD5 HSE Man MY 1999 470kmls….gone 2014 ….lovely engine..chassis rotten
D1 300TDI Man MY 1996 56kmls….gone 1999…D2 much better
Wife’s FL1 1.8P MY 2001 32kmls …gone 2007…has Mini since.

It won't fit in my garage so obviously problem solved!

The Freelander is a really nice car, especially after stuffing it full of acoustic insulation. & it has all the "additional" gadgets I need! Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

Compared with the cars available when I started driving, modern cars are much, much more reliable and the bodies are stronger and last better.

BUT, unfortunately modern car is now very complicated and very expensive to maintain.

To make things worse, I have gradually moved up the market to the more expensive end.
I would love a modern RRS but I think that it would be a step too far having looked at insurance and maintenance.

I have been driving FL2 SDs since 2012 and find that they suit me and my needs very well, I think that I may have become adapted to the experience. (or is it love)

Now that mine is 10+ years old I keep looking for replacements, I sit in others, but I love the driving position and the feel of my FL2.

My experience of the LR Warranty are mixed, everything worked well with my failed differential and the (AA) breakdown service diagnosed and got me into the dealer very quickly.
However lack of spares and problems with a suitable replacement vehicle meant that I had to appeal directly to the JLR CEO for help.

The new differential did not cost me anything but it took about a month. I thought that individuals I dealt with were very good and trying their best, but the overall system was too fragmented, also the wait for spares was excessive.

PS I have tried my FL2 in my home garage, it fits but I cannot open the door to get out. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 82k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

I can only open the door to the first notch, & that is getting the car perfectly positioned.

A piece of blue masking tape on the end wall which I line up with the fold in the bonnet.

A block of wood at the end of the garage.

A bicycle convex mirror a metre in on the left side of the garage.

Lastly, an old aluminium 50mm pipe along the left wall a few inches off the ground so the front tyre will rub that, before the quarter panel kisses the wall. A couple of inches clearance.

Almost "forgot", fold in mirrors!

It's easier to park the car a little bit on an angle into the left corner. Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

I look back on my time with the FL2 I am sure with rose tinted glasses, sure she needed a steering rack (under warranty), an IRD, and the tank gauges were a pain to replace. But overall a reliable car with a really comfortable driving position that did 185,000 in my ownership.
Currently the DS is poorly, number 3 piston has 8-10mm missing off the top due to a leaking injector. So looking at a bill of at least £14k and could be north of £25k I went looking for a replacement in the £30-40K range - nothing. All of the LR products have the troublesome Ingenium engine, some the wrong way around (transverse) and others the correct way - purely for the DPF to survive.

The Velar suffers from being an Evoque on steroids with limited visibility.
The F-Pace is nice if you have hips like a racing snake.
The Defender has a boot smaller than the original Freelander 1, unless you buy the bigger version and then prices are too high.
Did seriously consider another 2008 FL2, but heart ruled head and I am throwing the cash at the DS.

My advice for anyone considering getting rid of thier FL2 is unless she is starting to rot or doesn't meet the emmissions rules for where you live - don't. Everything else is way more fragile and complicated. The Dealerships are being forced into "plug it in and the factory gets online" diagnostics, and very few LR independants have the expierience to do meaningful diagnostics - give them 3-4 more years that will change.

There are manufacturers other than JLR apparently  Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

A lesson Land Rover learnt back in the 50/60s steel and aluminium are not compatable
and yet 50 years later they are still doing it  DAVE.

But how many Engineers from the 50/60s still work for JLR?

As an old Engineer I see the youngsters (21-45) making the same mistakes that we made or our Elders made, I tell them twice and then I decide that they aren't listening so let them learn the lesson the practical way.

It's a hard expensive lesson. Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Saw the same thing in work the other day.
Our newest engineering boss made such a school boy error it was embarrassing!

But they've cut the engineering crew's numbers down from 15 to 4 and all the experience has gone.
Of the guys that would have said "I wouldn't do that" there's now only two and neither were on site at the time.
A costly error, lost 60hrs of production!

Will they learn? Probably not, the job is not what it used to be to make you willing to put 35yrs in, as I have. I'm retiring this year, so that'll be another experienced guy gone!

What a lycra moaner! At least he had extended warranty that fixed it all for free
Any car can get a nail, every car will need new bushes at some time.
Most FFRR owners change their own oil like most FL2 owners. On FFRR its a simple vacuum pump on a dedicated extraction tube, and the oil filter is very easy to access!

If he had researched his buy and even had an independent inspection, maybe he would have walked away.
He would have known his vin was in the range that effects front knuckles 0n 2016/2017 cars only which have in most cases been repaired foc under vin range recall anyway.

Knowledge and experience counts when buying older cars.

I knew what I was doing with Series and Defender Landrovers - somewhat out of my depth these days.

I guess he set himself up by leaving his cycling helmet on  Jules

Andy131 wrote:

I look back on my time with the FL2 I am sure with rose tinted glasses, sure she needed a steering rack (under warranty), an IRD, and the tank gauges were a pain to replace. But overall a reliable car with a really comfortable driving position that did 185,000 in my ownership.
Currently the DS is poorly, number 3 piston has 8-10mm missing off the top due to a leaking injector. So looking at a bill of at least £14k and could be north of £25k I went looking for a replacement in the £30-40K range - nothing. All of the LR products have the troublesome Ingenium engine, some the wrong way around (transverse) and others the correct way - purely for the DPF to survive.

The Velar suffers from being an Evoque on steroids with limited visibility.
The F-Pace is nice if you have hips like a racing snake.
The Defender has a boot smaller than the original Freelander 1, unless you buy the bigger version and then prices are too high.
Did seriously consider another 2008 FL2, but heart ruled head and I am throwing the cash at the DS.

My advice for anyone considering getting rid of thier FL2 is unless she is starting to rot or doesn't meet the emmissions rules for where you live - don't. Everything else is way more fragile and complicated. The Dealerships are being forced into "plug it in and the factory gets online" diagnostics, and very few LR independants have the expierience to do meaningful diagnostics - give them 3-4 more years that will change.

There are manufacturers other than JLR apparently

That’s my other car! (Well, not exactly THAT one!).
Owned since 9/17 and zero miles!

No regrets, although I prefer to use the FL2 as my daily driver, as it’s more fun to drive and more practical to thread around the narrow lanes around here.

I / we bought a D240 with twin turbos, the vast majority are D180 with a single twin scroll turbo. Every single component is different, crank, con-rods, pistons, if the crank or crankcase were damaged I would have been looking at a new engine from LR, as it is just add 20% because of the the fact that it is the "high powered version".
The guys have crack tested the block and it's fine, the crank is fine, so happier days - the melted piston bits have gone absolutely everywhere, so everything has to be stripped and cleaned, including both turbos, at that point you might as well overhaul them - that's why it gets expensive. When the original liners are fitted they are freeze shrunk and just drop in, pushing them out can remove some of the interference metal from the crankcase, so they bore out the crankcase and fit slightly larger liners - all adds cost.

The car has sentimental value, it was my 60th birthday present from my late wife, which probably means that I was always going to find fault with any other car.

Interesting (to me) bit about the Ingenium engine, in order to reduce the friction the crank is offset from the bore - means less sideways thrust on the piston mid stroke. It also means that the power stroke is longer than the compression stroke in degrees of crank rotation and therefore in time compared to the compression stroke - more efficient? The offset means that it loses primary balance, so even the six cylinder version now needs balance shafts. This forces you to have two timing chains (camshafts and balance shafts), two sets of tensioners, two sets of guides, twin balance shafts, lots more things to go wrong. All this in an effort to reach Euro 6.
Oh and balance shaft bearings fail, well mine did at 10,000 miles. Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Some interesting posts on this thread…..

@Andy 131 : What a “Tale of Woe” …….terrible…how many miles has engine done ?
I thought thé Ingenium engine looked a bit of a mess when it came out…….emission add-ons make it look more untidy. I researched the engine a lot about 3 years ago when a friend of a friend was selling a 2017 Evoque …absolutely mint….not keen on seating position but not keen at all after reading so much about the problems ….. à crummy design….single not duplex, long timing chain…plastic guides which shatter…seemed obvious errors. Lots of other makers do similar…PSA with the 1.2 puretech..BMW with 2.0 D single T/chain ….Ford Ecoboost ……cambelt in oil …like puretech….crazy idea…especially with extended oil changes.
I think the TD5 was the last proper design…..pity Project Storm was dropped when BMW took over.
After driving our FL2 for last 13 years 160k miles….with minimal problems……what to replace it with…..?
Don’t think it will be a JLR vehicle…….will take the advice given by many on this forum…..& keep FL as long as possible…….. FL2 SD4 HSE Lux Auto MY 2012— current
D2 TD5 HSE Man MY 1999 470kmls….gone 2014 ….lovely engine..chassis rotten
D1 300TDI Man MY 1996 56kmls….gone 1999…D2 much better
Wife’s FL1 1.8P MY 2001 32kmls …gone 2007…has Mini since.