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jtq4u



Member Since: 22 Jan 2017
Location: Fareham
Posts: 26

England 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Indus Silver
shuddering and killing of crankshaft sensors

Hi all,
I have a strange and ongoing issue with my freelander 2 (2007 2.2 auto) which I am wondering if anyone else has encountered and solved?
It starts off as a shuddering at around 2000 to 2500 RPM a bit like going over a cattle grid. Once you are not at this sweet (or not so sweet!) spot then it goes away. However in time the crank shaft sensor totally dies. It started stalling out july 2019, with a crank shaft sensor error.. so in went a new one which died totally in August (leaving me and caravan closing the road out of Salisbury!). New sensor in again. more juddering Since April this year. replaced sensor, this time juddering didn't go away. serious juddering this week on the way to holiday with the caravan and then crank shaft sensor death again. New sensor put in again 2 days back (luckily by now I carry a spare!). Running again but with lots of juddering!

So what might kill crankshaft sensors and cause juddering I wonder.

I also wonder if it is related to the new timing/trigger wheel and crankshaft pulley we fitted a couple of years back when changing the cam belt. That was an odd one as the '07 car had a thicker trigger wheel and thinner crank pulley than later models. The only ones available now are with a really thin trigger wheel and a thicker pulley. So we had to swap both the trigger wheel and the pulley. Perhaps it is now slightly misaligned. It isn't possible it seems to source the exact ones.

My only other thought would be the wiring to the sensor. I am off out now to resistance test the wires back to the ecu. Also to volt meter the supply to the sensor (I think it is 3 wire with one sense, and 2 supply wires).
I tested it last year ago though and it was ok (but the symptom had gone then).

total nightmare!

Post #394843 30th Jul 2020 3:55 pm
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jtq4u



Member Since: 22 Jan 2017
Location: Fareham
Posts: 26

England 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Indus Silver

I've just come in from investigating the wiring. What a pain it is with Freelanders that you have to remove the windscreen wipers to get to the ECU!
Anyhow I checked continuity between the ECU connector and the 3 wires at the Crank shaft sensor and all 3 were good. I then checked the voltage between pin 1 and 3 of the sensor when the ignition was on, these were correct at 5v.
I am not sure where my oscilloscope is at the moment, I'd need to hunt it out to check the other pin (as the middle pin is a variable voltage encoded signal via the hall sensor).
Then I put it back together and it didn't start (which is actually a good thing). Wiggling and removing the plug and putting it back in again allowed me to toggle between working and not working. So it seems the plug is the fault for the total 'failure' I saw this week. It is quite possibly the reason for the killing of the sensor last year too (that one really was dead, although you can't easily test them i could swap between it and a new one and get working/not working).

I doubt this will have fixed the shuddering, we will see tomorrow when I can test drive it (I can't now as I am home alone with the kids who are in bed). I suspect what happened is the shuddering shakes the bad connector. and so there are two separate issues - as is so often the case!

shuddering (issue unknown) --> causes bad connector to come loose causing engine to stop.

I will update tomorrow when I see if the shuddering remains.

Post #394849 30th Jul 2020 9:12 pm
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jtq4u



Member Since: 22 Jan 2017
Location: Fareham
Posts: 26

England 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Indus Silver

on the landyzone forum someone has pointed out that the shudder could well be the torque converter clutch in the auto box. Google had hinted to me that was a possibility, though I had hoped not.

I've ordered a used engine loom to graft the crank shaft sensor plug from. I am fairly sure now that this is a separate issue to the vibration, probably exasperated by it.

shame I can't source a new crankshaft sensor plug. did a lot of googling!

Post #394861 31st Jul 2020 8:04 am
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jtq4u



Member Since: 22 Jan 2017
Location: Fareham
Posts: 26

England 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Indus Silver

The freelander seems to be fixed!

I carefully unpicked the used wiring loom and extracted the 3 wires from the Crankshaft sensor all the way back to the ecu, and cut them a couple of inches from the ecu.

I then also removed all the insulating tape from the used loom and salvaged as many thin conduit parts as possible.

Next I plugged my plug with the long 3 wires (recovered from the used loom) into my car's crank shaft sensor, and then covered the 3 wires with bits of salvaged condiuit and new insulating tape to make a new loom part.
this i then routed more sensibly than the original one so it doesn't get so hot and also isn't susceptible to getting covered in oil that may leak from the rigid-to-turbo air pipe (it gets oil in it from the crank ventilation).
My route is up the side of the engine, clipping behind the radiator hose mount.. and then just below the windscreen wiper flat cover. I drilled some holes in this part of the firewall and cable tied it along the top of the firewall there. Then one larger hole in the firewall, slightly right of center, where the conduit enters the firewall. my 3 wires are then patched into the loom at the ecu central plug.

How did I know which wires? welll there are loads of them, but I found two of the colours as a twisted pair (lucky as the colors are not unique) and then the single other wire. Each of these I resistance tested against the old plug to check I had the right ones, before removing the ecu plug, choc-bloking them to the new loom, replacing the ecu plug and seeing if the car started. It did, so I removed the plug again and soldered them in place, with heat shrink over them.

I have now done a 60 mile varied driving style test solo and 40 miles with the caravan and the issue appears to have gone. Lets hope it is indeed gone as I have 5 hours of driving with the caravan to complete on saturday!

Here are the pics
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1oG...sp=sharing

Post #395035 4th Aug 2020 2:55 pm
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Bobupndown



Member Since: 26 Dec 2014
Location: Upside down behind the TV!
Posts: 2622

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 GS Auto Orkney Grey

Wow epic battle hopefully won! Its as well you had the ability to carry out all the fault finding yourself , hate to think how much a garage would charge for all that, and maybe not even resolve the issue. Bow down Landrover - turning owners into mechanics since 1948

2014 Orkney grey Freelander SD4 GS.
2004 Zambezi silver Discovery 2 Td5 (Gone)
1963 Surf blue Morris Mini Minor Super de Luxe (my little toy)

Post #395036 4th Aug 2020 3:38 pm
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Carel Kriek



Member Since: 01 Aug 2016
Location: Stellenbosch, Western Cape
Posts: 128

South Africa 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Orkney Grey

Perseverance and logic paying off! Well done! Thumbs Up Thumbs Up 2013 SD4 SE (hers)
2013 SD4 HSE (mine)
Ex: 2008 D3 V8 HSE
EX: 2000 D2 TD5

Post #395040 4th Aug 2020 4:34 pm
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jules



Member Since: 13 Dec 2007
Location: The Wilds of Warwickshire
Posts: 4518

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 SE Auto Firenze Red

@jtq4u impressive fix -well done and thanks for sharing Jules

Post #395049 4th Aug 2020 7:21 pm
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jtq4u



Member Since: 22 Jan 2017
Location: Fareham
Posts: 26

England 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Indus Silver

Thanks Guys.

Lets hope the holiday is non eventful at the weekend!

When I return I will address the oil seepage from the joint in the induction pipe after the PCV and before it dives down to the right to the turbo. I blame that for destroying the sensor plug/wiring. there was oil actually coming out of the conduit all the way down at the sensor. I am asking on the landrover forum as to how much PCV oil leek off people expect to have - as I need to decide whether the PCV needs investigating or just that joint needs improving. It's a weekness in the car as it gets bent all over the place when you change the air filter, or it gets removed and rejoined each time. Either way it gets disturbed.

FL1 used to have an oil/air filter but apparently the FL2 doesnt. Probably because of the catastrophic failures the blocked filter used to cause. Instead it has a seperator. I've never looked at the FL2 one. In a recent (perhaps 5 years old) Defender I worked on this comprised of a spinny thing. I'd rather not meddle with it though if we are just to expect some seepage.

Update:
it seems like this is a hot topic:
https://www.freel2.com/forum/topic31972.html?highlight=pcv

Post #395091 5th Aug 2020 2:41 pm
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impact



Member Since: 11 Mar 2011
Location: Perth
Posts: 139

Australia 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto Fuji White

jtq4u wrote:
The freelander seems to be fixed!

I carefully unpicked the used wiring loom and extracted the 3 wires from the Crankshaft sensor all the way back to the ecu, and cut them a couple of inches from the ecu.

I then also removed all the insulating tape from the used loom and salvaged as many thin conduit parts as possible.

Next I plugged my plug with the long 3 wires (recovered from the used loom) into my car's crank shaft sensor, and then covered the 3 wires with bits of salvaged condiuit and new insulating tape to make a new loom part.
this i then routed more sensibly than the original one so it doesn't get so hot and also isn't susceptible to getting covered in oil that may leak from the rigid-to-turbo air pipe (it gets oil in it from the crank ventilation).
My route is up the side of the engine, clipping behind the radiator hose mount.. and then just below the windscreen wiper flat cover. I drilled some holes in this part of the firewall and cable tied it along the top of the firewall there. Then one larger hole in the firewall, slightly right of center, where the conduit enters the firewall. my 3 wires are then patched into the loom at the ecu central plug.

How did I know which wires? welll there are loads of them, but I found two of the colours as a twisted pair (lucky as the colors are not unique) and then the single other wire. Each of these I resistance tested against the old plug to check I had the right ones, before removing the ecu plug, choc-bloking them to the new loom, replacing the ecu plug and seeing if the car started. It did, so I removed the plug again and soldered them in place, with heat shrink over them.

I have now done a 60 mile varied driving style test solo and 40 miles with the caravan and the issue appears to have gone. Lets hope it is indeed gone as I have 5 hours of driving with the caravan to complete on saturday!

Here are the pics
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1oG...sp=sharing



Did that fix the problem? MY10 TD4 SE Auto

Post #410248 16th Jul 2021 11:17 am
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shiggsy



Member Since: 13 Jan 2013
Location: Kent
Posts: 789

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Baltic Blue

The usual fix for the oil leak is replacing the original clamp with a jubillee clip. 
Hung like Einstein, smart as a horse.

Post #410250 16th Jul 2021 11:59 am
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impact



Member Since: 11 Mar 2011
Location: Perth
Posts: 139

Australia 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto Fuji White

I was interested to know whether replacing the wires fixed the problem with crank sensors dying well and good. MY10 TD4 SE Auto

Post #410278 17th Jul 2021 9:50 am
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impact



Member Since: 11 Mar 2011
Location: Perth
Posts: 139

Australia 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto Fuji White

All sorted. The problem was with the crankshaft sensor connector / plug. If anyone is having the same problem and would like to get it fixed, read my comments here (link below) or send me a message to discuss further:

https://www.freel2.com/forum/topic37181.html MY10 TD4 SE Auto

Post #410905 1st Aug 2021 2:07 pm
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jtq4u



Member Since: 22 Jan 2017
Location: Fareham
Posts: 26

England 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Indus Silver

impact wrote:
I was interested to know whether replacing the wires fixed the problem with crank sensors dying well and good.


Yep it stayed fixed thankfully!

Post #422881 1st Jul 2022 1:16 pm
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