Hi Bob,

Tenacious or just mad.... The problem is that I look at the car or I sit in it and just feel the love

The thing is, it ticks all my boxes Paid for, I know the history and many of the things which can go have been serviced or replaced. The car has only done 80k spent much of it's live in a dry desert, (UAE) and has actually spent a number of years parked up in a garage. As the HSE all the available extras including 14 speaker Hiline media, seats imaculate, like new and the facelift front with signature ledmand xenon headlights.

Freelanders are good for towing, maybe not up to the level of the Disco or Defender and we have an Ifor Williams TT105 tipping trailer and an IW twin wheel box trailer which are well within her capability.


If the engineering company hadn't made a pig's ear of the head everything would be lovely, but I am struggling a bit at the moment, stripping everything back to do the head again is grinding me down.

I'm just holding on to the hope that I can get a replacement head from the States

Emma x 2009 Jaguar XF 3.0
2011 Jaguar XF 3.0
2007 LR2 i6 3.2 HSE
1980 Moto Guzzi 850 T3 California

I'm in Houston, PM and let me know what you need and I'll see if I can help.

Houston, She has a problem 11 GS Bali Blue
07 GS FL2. Usually muddy. Gone
Numerous LRs since 1963

Lets hope Houston uses Apollo 11 and not Apollo 13 then.........

Good luck  Regards

David

Lovely i6 has now gone, but not me......

Please let me know if anything in my post offends you, as I may wish to offend you again......

Ah the autumn season appears like the ghost mist of early morning, the changing colours of the trees and all the furry and feathery things busy collecting… Ah sorry… Wrong forum!! 😊..


So, auntie Emma’s update about FreeDeux.

That wonderful person from Houston, (actually wonderful just doesn’t go far enough), A huge thanks and hug to TXFireblade for all the help he gave me. We bought a head from a breaker in the USA, (through EBay), the seller shipped it to Houston and Mr wonderful then cleaned it and repacked into a stout plastic container, (Remembering the saga with EBay Global shipping/ Pitney Bowes who rejected the head as it had been in contact with or had contained oil). It arrived safe and sound to Southampton at a fraction of the cost of a second hand one from Germany or Sweden and of course a new one.

But since that time Auntie Emma had had more opportunity to look at engine porn on You Tube, as well as thinking all this through again.

I feel that the valve stems are simply too long and despite the (several) conversations with the engineer about valve/tappet clearance, (and actually including the workshop manual specifications), It seems like they didn’t adjust the valve length. Now this may not be recommended or even possible but the head went back to them twice, was skimmed twice and after the first skim two of the valve were bent, as well as there being no compression. I am absolutely clear that I discussed this with them and as the valve tappets do not have an adjustable shim, and there is only one thickness of head gasket the only option is the either grind the valve tappet or the valve stem. Otherwise the valves will be too long.

The valve tappets are the same ones used on the 4.4 Diesel and the 3.2 and 4.2 petrol engines on the Discovery, Range Rover Sport and the Freelander 2/LR2. Britpart list dozens of them, varying by 0.005mm.

Would it make sense therefore to simply adjust the valve tappet by the amount of head depth removed…? EEEK!

The problem is that I have no specification from the engineer who skimmed the head and on asking them today he said that he didn’t know how much was removed on each occasion… The closest to a number I got was about 3 thousand’s “each time which equates to 0.0762mm. The range of valve tappets seems to go from 2.950mm up to 3.685mm which is a difference of 0.735mm.

Would I be right in thinking that if I simply increase the valve tappet thickness by that amount it should bring me back to the correct gap?

It assumes though that my existing head has never been skimmed before and that the standard valve tappet thickness is 2.950?

If I buy new valve tappets of 3.1000 (the closest to 3.1024 I can get), that should address the issue.

Does that make sense to anyone?

The reason for all this is that the replacement head had done a lot more miles and I was thinking of having that refurbished, (NOT the same place!) and at least lapping the valves in. The truth is that I don’t know whether this replacement head has or has not also been skimmed at some point and I don’t want to repeat the same mess.

The other question I have, and apologies if it is a stupid one but after a head has been skimmed do the shims need to be thicker or thinner by the amount the head was skimmed?


As always, lovely people, any advice would be appreciated.

Emma xx 2009 Jaguar XF 3.0
2011 Jaguar XF 3.0
2007 LR2 i6 3.2 HSE
1980 Moto Guzzi 850 T3 California

I very much admire your tenacity but at risk of sounding defeatist I would have bought a complete engine from a scrapyàrd in the UK and got it shipped to france or hired a van. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

Good morning DF,

thank you for your reply, I can understand your sentiment and had that have been possible a replacement engine, on reflection, would have been an easier and maybe, quicker option. The biggest problem though is that the 3.2 i6 petrol engine is quite rare here in the UK and Europe. They do come up occasionally, (mainly Germany and Sweden as they were fitted into a number of Volvos) but they really are rare. Those that do get offered have either been broken up, or are basket cases. They also command silly money.


Stripping the cylinder head on this model is involved but I am much more confident than when I first started. I do though, feel that I am in some form of, 'Abilene Paradox' except that the main culprit for making the bad decisions, is me!


There are some huge positives in all this...


On the first strip down, had I have just changed the bottom hose, the cost would have been less than £40.00 and would have been complete in a day, (or so ). I would then have found out that the head, or head gasket was failing. Instead, I decided that whilst I was working on the car I would replace, water pump, steering pump, alternator, (had an intermittent fault) and most of the other hoses which were looking tired and soft. Sadly, it was only after all that that I realised that the head/gasket was also a problem.


Second strip down then involved almost anything else such as timing chain, (even though they are pretty indestructible) and as I had the head off, I thought it would be prudent to have it pressure tested and then skimmed.


I think that this is where the real difficulty began, I confess that my ego was possibly affecting my judgement. All my friends and neighbours, (certainly the ones in France who saw the scale of work), were very complimentary and amazed that I had taken on such a task. I wasn’t being disingenuous, but I just saw the work as a process which involved time, special tools, parts and of course mess! I became determined to sort it out… Adding into this, the fact that the vehicle is very isolated, can’t be towed any distance and the cost of recovering it to the UK was prohibitive. I also have to say that professional garage services were less than positive in that the work, along with recovery and their charges, plus new, replacement parts were beyond the value of the vehicle.

However, I love my FreeDeux, and like the Jaguars, my first purchase was aspirational. I am proud to own a Land Rover and it was a long decision between the Land Rover and Range Rover models. A proper 4x4 (with the right tyres), low mileage and at a great price. Plus, she was a Lefty which was perfect for Europe…,

It is difficult to get good information or even anecdotal information about this model simply as there are so few of them. There isn’t a Haynes for this model although there is a comprehensive workshop manual in pdf. There are some excellent YouTube videos and this helped enormously.

I feel that it is my lack of knowledge in basic engineering that is letting me down. The engineers who had the cylinder head kind of dismissed me as the one being the problem. The first response was that I had done the timing incorrectly and no matter how I explained that, on this particular engine configuration, and using the correct tools, it isn’t possible to put it back incorrectly. The crank locking tool can only be fitted one way, the two-piece front cam locking tool the same and then the rear cams at the timing chain end, (READ) also locked into place with a tool. In addition, I have the special tool(s) to hold down both cams on assembly. In fact, I could open up my own workshop for this model.

Again, I repeated the point that as the valve tappets don’t have removable shims, (this is only referring to the Exhaust side and the intake tappets are hydraulic) that it would be preferable to shorten the valve stems by the amount they skimmed. At no point did the engineer say to me that this wasn’t possible or that I was being silly.


So, after the second build I had no pressure in number 6 cylinder and number two cylinder, (on disassembly) had a bent valve.

All I got, from the engineer, was that I had made a mistake with the timing, I was also accused of dropping the head which simply wasn’t true as I had used an engine hoist and balance bar. It was transported back to the UK in the back of my car, in a plastic tray, bubble wrap and black clingfilm.

So, a second skim and the fitting of two new exhaust valves. And again, the discussion about valve stem lengths, especially after bending the valves and having no compression… Including the specification of valve tappet spacing from the manual, (copied and included with the head on each time they had it).

I reassembled for the third time with confidence that everything had been done.

I now have no compression…. It was quite obvious as the engine just spun freely, I checked for compression anyway and it was zero.



I contacted the engineer yesterday and he was very reluctant to give me any information about how much had been skimmed each time. It is obvious that their defence mechanisms have kicked in. I have no receipt, no documentation about the work and no idea how much metal has been removed. To be honest I really am getting peeved that they dismiss me is such a way and just blame me for failing to do the job properly. The final part of the conversation was that. they wouldn’t make any adjustments to the valve stems… EEEEEEK! The best I can get is a vague statement that, “Normally, it’s about 3 thou.”. So, the head was skimmed twice making a total depth reduction of 6 thou.

My plan would be to get a complete set of shims for the exhaust side, strip down for the fourth time. In the meantime, a nice winter project would be to strip down the head that TXFireblade obtained for me and start to refurbish that.

So, if the head is skimmed, do the shims need to be thicker or thinner to compensate?

Any advice would be appreciated or even direction to where I can ask about this.

Emma xx

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Emma are you in Australia ?

Does the head from the States still have the valves and camshafts fitted? If so I would have it pressure tested and if ok fit it as is with no further work. Upon reassembly I would turn the engine over by hand multiple times to ensure that there is no piston valve contact.

"So, if the head is skimmed, do the shims need to be thicker or thinner to compensate? "

Emma, I don't understand your thinking on this!

Skimming the head has no effect on the required thickness of the shims surely. All that that does is affect tappet clearances, does it not?

Just my opinion as an experienced engineer but I have absolutely no knowledge of the I6 motor, so happy to be corrected.

Cheers,

Nick (Now Sold). 2008 Freelander 2 (Nazca Sand) SE TD4 Auto. Statutory write off & on WOVR for hail damage but still road legal.
171037Km as of 09/05/22
Superchips Bluefin Flash
Nanocom Evo II (also sold)

Hi Nick, thank you for your reply, apologies for confusing you.

I am struggling with the issue and am likely making a fool of myself. I contacted the local Landrover dealer and JLR Customer Services but I have been unable to get an answer.

After trying to explain things again I have just realised how stupid I am…. The bottom of the valves are not in Contact with the face of the cylinder head which gets skimmed… OMG I feel so stupid! They are in a port recess DOH…

Of course, it would have been much better if Auntie Emma had put brain into gear before setting out the previous diatribe…

I have mentioned it before and I need to say it again, I think that this forum is one of the best ones around. In other places I have no doubt that the replies would have been much less friendly. Thank you guys, Huge hug all round!


So, to go back to the problem! Since the reskim, I have no compression and some of the valves are not closing fully. One possible reason is that that the valve tappets (which may have different thicknesses) have been mixed up. I numbered them and put them in bags to prevent this so the only thing I can think of now is to break it all down again and measure each valve tappet individually. If they are mixed up then it will be an involved job trying to get all 12 back in the right order.

There is nothing I can do until I get back to France.

Once again you guys thank you

Emma xx 2009 Jaguar XF 3.0
2011 Jaguar XF 3.0
2007 LR2 i6 3.2 HSE
1980 Moto Guzzi 850 T3 California

Emma, Everything that has happened points to incorrect valve timing so you now need to start going over everything that you have done up to this point to try and find out where the problem lies. Although you are sure that you have timed it up correctly the bent valves are saying different so there is something wrong somewhere that is getting missed. You mentioned earlier in this thread that the camshafts had been mixed up by the engineering shop and that you had to change them over. Double check that again and compare with your new head (if it has cams fitted). Not trying to say you have done something wrong but you have the same bent valve problem again so you must now assume that something that looks correct is in fact wrong. If it`s bent exhaust valves all the time then that narrows it down a bit to the exhaust camshaft timing. Did timing belt on a Clio DCI once and could not get it timed properly. Turned out the little keyway on the camshaft pulley had broken off meaning that the pulley although still tight had moved enough on the camshaft to alter the timing. Took a bit of time to work that out but did in the end by going over everything again and not assuming just because it looked ok that it actually was. Good luck!

Hi DD, thanks for your advice. As you say it does keep pointing to timing, and I have replaced the timing chain and tensioner.


Yes the cams were incorrectly placed when I got them back, i.e. the intake was in the exaust position but they can't be attached like that because the timing gear cogs are specific to each cam and they can't be put on the wrong way as the locking tool wouldn't attach. I have to be honest though, sitting here in Southampton I am doubting everything I have done


I followed the advice of Volvo Guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ua9vQaNYHg

This is the exact engine in the LR2 3.2 i6

I have checked and rechecked each step, but I agree I could have made a mistake somewhere.

I first of all take the rear lower engine mount off.
Fix the temporary support into the predrilled holes
Remove the Crank front Seal
Attach the crank locking tool. This will only go on one way as the pins are offset. Throughout the process I check that the crank still rotates as one pin on the locking tool can be released and the crank turned by a ratchet. Immediately after checking rotation the locking pin is back in place.
The cams have different timing wheels and they match the images in the videos and workshop manual exactly. The two-piece cam locking tool is put on the right way on the front ends and again as the dog is offset it only has one position. I leave the two-piece locking tool attached but only finger tight until the timing chain is on and the tensioner released, then the front-end tool is tightened. I then attach the two individual timing gear wheels onto the back of the cams and then tighten the cam bolts.


I assumed that the exhaust valves were all in the same order that they were originally. I numbered them and had them in numbered plastic bags. When I collected the cylinder head they were already back in place. I also assumed that the exhaust valve tappets would be all the same size but I am having doubts about that now. If this is the case and they were mixed up, could that account for some valves not closing whilst other still do?

But Honestly DD I will go back and go through every step again.

WE do have an old school micrometer in the tool chest so I could check the size of each exhaust tappet when I get back. I could go through each valve tappet in turn to get a value. Then try each tappet in every place until I get the correct gap? I think that’s 144 possible values? If I remove all the tappets and then do one at a time it would allow me to turn the cam lobes to the correct position regardless of any of the others as there would be space under all the lobes?

I’m grasping at straws and hoping to come up with an answer.

Once again thank you for your advice.

Emma xx 2009 Jaguar XF 3.0
2011 Jaguar XF 3.0
2007 LR2 i6 3.2 HSE
1980 Moto Guzzi 850 T3 California

Emma, If it is bending the same valves every time then I would be looking at those valves as a starting point and not worrying too much about the rest. If you have valves that are not closing properly is this down to a lack of clearance or because they have become bent? I would very much doubt that having the shims mixed up would make a huge difference as they should all be pretty close to each other in terms of dimensions. (Grasping at straws) Did you check the length of the new valves matched exactly the old valves before they were fitted?

I assume all the pistons are raising to exactly the same point in their bores?

Sounds odd but if one (for some reason) is higher, you have your valve interference.

I must admit I am struggling to think of a "normal" reason a piston would do this but who knows, broken piston with a slightly raised crown hanging on for dear life....dunno. Regards

David

Lovely i6 has now gone, but not me......

Please let me know if anything in my post offends you, as I may wish to offend you again......