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Aveling



Member Since: 24 Mar 2011
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 265

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 Metropolis LE Auto Firenze Red

I had a new Audi a4 back in 2007 with a 2.0 TDI 170hp engine - they were renowned for having failing injectors - the piezo coils used to give up.
It twice stopped in the outside lane of a motorway with no warning, whilst my wife was driving. She managed to cruise to the hard shoulder on both occasions thankfully.
After the first instance I had one injector changed - ouch
The second time I had the remaining three changed, the total cost for the four was over £2k - luckily a while after I’d paid this bill, VW / Audi admitted a problem with them and refunded the cost - apparently the high Dpf burn off temperatures were killing the injectors, frying the coils.
As for modern garages and so called fitters - if the computer says nothing, they are generally stumped - things are far too complex, and randomly changing bits gets you nothing other than a very big bill.

Post #416146 18th Dec 2021 10:58 pm
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CED



Member Since: 05 Apr 2014
Location: leverington
Posts: 233

United Kingdom 2011 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Manual Bali Blue

This is why I use a local garage that I trust. They use knowledge as well as what the computer says.

Post #416149 19th Dec 2021 9:12 am
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gasman



Member Since: 02 May 2013
Location: Tyneside
Posts: 888

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4_e GS Manual Zermatt Silver

Update for today.

Garage confirms that they have tried a new egr and it made no difference. No surprise there then. I tried to tell them that but they are the experts. Original egr back in car.
Their next thought is the high pressure pump. I have tried to explain that the fuel pressure builds up almost instantly and stays within limits. I also said that if the pump was failing there would be metal particles in the fuel system. It was agreed that this was correct.
I now want the car put back together so that I can collect it tomorrow. I am going to need it over Christmas and the MOT is due shortly.
I'll have to work something out with them when I get there.
Thing is, although the injectors failed the test and new one's fitted, I've been told the issue is still present.
Car has been there three and a half weeks and I'm no further forward. Sad Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Post #416244 22nd Dec 2021 1:43 pm
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I Like Chips



Member Since: 25 Jun 2017
Location: Ascott Under Wychwood
Posts: 1529

United Kingdom 2011 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Indus Silver

Surely the pressure of the high pressure pump can be read in live data

Post #416255 22nd Dec 2021 9:13 pm
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gasman



Member Since: 02 May 2013
Location: Tyneside
Posts: 888

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4_e GS Manual Zermatt Silver

It can and I have.
I expect to pick it up tomorrow, complete with the original issue. Rolling Eyes Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Post #416260 22nd Dec 2021 10:29 pm
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AndyP



Member Since: 09 May 2007
Location: Reading
Posts: 101

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Sumatra Black

New Injectors don't solve the problem.
You know common rail pressure comes up just fine.
You know that the ECU is firing the injectors
I think you know that when it does fire , there is no lumpy running and it ticks over just fine
You know that it isn't air flow ( I think you said it ran without the throttle body connected)
I'm back at the ECU isn't commanding a sufficient injector pulse (for whatever reason). I thought a mobile injector specialist would have diagnosis cables to attach in-situ to the car , to actually record what the injector pulses look like.
(That would also show what happened to the pulse relative to the battery earth terminal , and any resultant starter cranking changes)

Post #416271 23rd Dec 2021 3:44 pm
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gasman



Member Since: 02 May 2013
Location: Tyneside
Posts: 888

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4_e GS Manual Zermatt Silver

Hi Andy
Thanks for that piece of information, I didn't know you could do that. That will be something to mention when I take it back in a couple of weeks.
Took it for a run out yesterday and as predicted the hard start is still there. Unfortunately it now has a new issue. When the engine is under load climbing a long hill I get engine vibration through the steering wheel and it can be felt at the accelerator pedal. Also the fuel consumption is still poor.

Garage now wants to change the high pressure fuel pump to see if that makes a difference.
I' will have to try and reason with them again and mention what you suggest. Thumbs Up Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Post #416343 25th Dec 2021 5:06 pm
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oldgeezer



Member Since: 09 Apr 2011
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 1302

United Kingdom 2013 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Baltic Blue

still need to remember that the rail pressures need to be within a specific threshold before the ECU will instigate the injectors.
If the pressure is too low or too high it will switch the injectors off to safe guard the engine.
i would suggest rather than throwing parts at it, it needs someone with a scope to go through it in some depth.
what is the battery voltage whilst cranking ?
What is the voltage between the negative battery terminal and the bell housing whilst cranking ?
re-reading all the posts, has someone scoped the camshaft signal for definitive output and check it back at ECU,
cam sensor signal determines start of injection.
I have had vehicles with too much back EMF from a starter motor interfere with cam sensor signal.
Scoping the starter for excessive back EMF is always good, had a transit about a year ago, everyone thought i was loopy but after another garage had fitted pump and injectors etc it was the starter causing interference with cam sensor. Jaguar x-type sport gone
Jaguar x-type 2.2d sport one of my best cars ever sadly gone
Freelander 2 GS auto 2008 most unreliable ever ! gladly gone
Freelander 2 GS manual 2013 only time will tell !

Post #416351 26th Dec 2021 10:03 am
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gasman



Member Since: 02 May 2013
Location: Tyneside
Posts: 888

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4_e GS Manual Zermatt Silver

Hi Oldgeezer
I don't know if the garage has scoped anything, I certainly haven't as I don't have one.
As for some of your other observations.
Battery voltage is fine. Battery only couple of months old.
Have additional earth straps fitted.
Starter motor fairly new, approximately three months.
I know there is some form of signal going to the injectors during cranking as I used a noid light to confirm.

Fault has got to be something that only happens when the engine has cooled down. Engine starts fine when warm.
Never any rough idle or rough running after either start up.

I am still convinced it's a fueling issue.
ECU thinks the engine is warm, when in fact it is cold. Therefore does not inject enough fuel for a cold start.
All the relevant sensors have been changed. Therefore the ECU must be reading the information incorrectly.
If the ECU is not reporting any fault codes, it must be at fault.

That is my logic anyway.

Still open to suggestions though. Thumbs Up Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Post #416361 26th Dec 2021 4:09 pm
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I Like Chips



Member Since: 25 Jun 2017
Location: Ascott Under Wychwood
Posts: 1529

United Kingdom 2011 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Indus Silver

I am going to put my head above the trench

Could it be a faulty Coolant temp sensor ?

Have you done a live value check on it?

Post #416363 26th Dec 2021 6:33 pm
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gasman



Member Since: 02 May 2013
Location: Tyneside
Posts: 888

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4_e GS Manual Zermatt Silver

Consider head just shot off Laughing

Coolant temp sensor was replaced recently. Not because the old one was faulty but just like you I thought replace it anyway as it sounded like a good idea at the time.
Sadly, it made no difference.

As always I appreciate the input though. Thumbs Up Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Post #416376 27th Dec 2021 1:46 pm
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jules



Member Since: 13 Dec 2007
Location: The Wilds of Warwickshire
Posts: 4937

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 SE Auto Firenze Red

So you postulate that the ECU is viewing the engine as warm when it actually its cold and hence poor cold starting. Would not the displayed coolant temp be wrong also? Just guessing.

Would it help to put the temp sensor in water of known temp (with a thermometer) and see what temp is registered via the OBD2 socket as the presumably analogue signal from the temp sensor is converted to digital somewhere ? Jules

Post #416378 27th Dec 2021 2:11 pm
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Andy131



Member Since: 09 Dec 2009
Location: Manchester
Posts: 2175

United Kingdom 

Just a thought - the FL2 has an oil temperature sensor (LR001368) could this be part of the problem?

Please ignore if it's already been discussed - feeling lazy and couldn't be bothered to re-read all the posts - Gasman's been struggling for a while now and it's got be be getting Censored annoying. Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Post #416382 27th Dec 2021 4:34 pm
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IanMetro



Member Since: 11 Sep 2017
Location: Somerset BS21
Posts: 3107

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 Metropolis LE Auto Fuji White

There ought to be a prize for the best guess (or even the right answer)

I, for one, am very curious to know how this ends.

Good Luck Gasman I hope 2022 brings you a fully reliable FL2. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Post #416384 27th Dec 2021 5:25 pm
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pinhead



Member Since: 12 Nov 2013
Location: yorkshire
Posts: 112

You need to check all the temperature sensors are giving the ecu a roughly correct reading this needs a good look at the live data its not always just enough to put new sensors in as it can be a wiring issue
It may be that a wire has rubbed through just enough to give an occasional bad reading
If the ecu according to live data is seeing every sensor as roughly the correct temperature and its still slow to start then you can rule temp sensors out but remember it uses quite a lot of sensors in its logic including the ambient temperature

Post #416392 27th Dec 2021 8:47 pm
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