I've been following up on an apparent fault with the traction control and established that it is easy to strand the car if there is a spinning wheel both front and rear.

The car will just sit and keep spinning the wheels without any meaningful intervention from the traction control. The conditions that produce this problem are quite benign such as climbing over a small log on a sandy surface. I tried all terrain response settings as well as turning off the DSC. The result was the same for all settings.

Is this a fault or just bad design?

I will be demonstrating this to the dealer in a couple of days (hence the trial run). It would be useful to know if this is a common problem or a fault with my car.

The traction control is kicking over 2000 RPM. This in order to let you to build up the torque and sit around the point of max torque. Especially in the case of manual gearboxes where you can easily stall the engine otherwise.
Don't be so gentle and slowly rev the engine over 2000 RPM.
Take a look here and listen to the sound of engine.
I've tried to make them as suggestive as possible.
They are cross axle situations, like in your case.

Great videos Alex.

Is that your FL2 or is the white just a coincidence?


It is very noticeable how the spinning wheel almost stops as the other wheels take over.

I suppose it's those sort of things most people with this type of vehicle don't know/realise. Sometimes a bit more accelerator is what is needed not less.

Cheers 2002 Honda VFR800
2002 Toyota Celica 140 Silver (mid life crisis - again!)
2007 FL2 GS Manual Army Reconnaissance Green + freel2.com sticker
2004 Toyota Celica 140 Black - Gone
2000 Toyota Celica 140 Silver - Gone
1998 Toyota Celica ST Pearl Green - Gone
1996 Nissan Primera 1.6 - Gone
1994 Rover Montego 1.6 Auto - Gone

It is me with my car and two good friends that accompany me in most of my outdoors trips.
One with a Nissan Patrol and one with a Toyoya RAV4.
Never go alone on the trail, remember? For fun and for safety...

It is easy to think you have got stuck in the Freelander 2 as with most off road training you are constantly cautioned about spinning the wheels. As Alex has stated, the exceptional traction control system has to work with higher revs as the brakes are applied to the spinning wheels to allow the power to distribute to the others. On my experience day, the instructor explained the traction system as a lazy teenager. It always goes to the easiest point without having to do much work (spinning wheels), its only when you give it a push (higher revs) that it will actually do any extra!!

Here is another video explaining the process:

alex_pescaru wrote:

It is me with my car and two good friends that accompany me in most of my outdoors trips.
One with a Nissan Patrol and one with a Toyoya RAV4.
Never go alone on the trail, remember? For fun and for safety...

And of Course to laugh and take photos if you do get stuck  2002 Honda VFR800
2002 Toyota Celica 140 Silver (mid life crisis - again!)
2007 FL2 GS Manual Army Reconnaissance Green + freel2.com sticker
2004 Toyota Celica 140 Black - Gone
2000 Toyota Celica 140 Silver - Gone
1998 Toyota Celica ST Pearl Green - Gone
1996 Nissan Primera 1.6 - Gone
1994 Rover Montego 1.6 Auto - Gone

great videos, again demonstrating just what FL2 can do if the driver knows how to drive it !!

Iain

Thanks for that info. It seems I need to unlearn my off road techniques and learn some new ones! Somehow promoting wheel spin doesn't seem right!

An issue I've had is more revs then getting grip and much more acceleration than I wanted or was prudent. Maybe I just need to do some more proctice.

Or maybe I should have gone for a Disco with low range.

Hi Cutch

I was going to suggets looking out for a LR Experience Day but I notice where your located and have ready on other topics that they may have stopped in your location.

Perhaps an international holiday is in order  2002 Honda VFR800
2002 Toyota Celica 140 Silver (mid life crisis - again!)
2007 FL2 GS Manual Army Reconnaissance Green + freel2.com sticker
2004 Toyota Celica 140 Black - Gone
2000 Toyota Celica 140 Silver - Gone
1998 Toyota Celica ST Pearl Green - Gone
1996 Nissan Primera 1.6 - Gone
1994 Rover Montego 1.6 Auto - Gone

Cutch wrote:

Somehow promoting wheel spin doesn't seem right!

Cutch wrote:

It seems I need to unlearn my off road techniques and learn some new ones!

You have to encourage wheel spin in order to find the limits of available traction, driving below that level will only get you so far. As said the electronics in an fl2 will not do anything without some spin first. just obviously dont allow wheel spin if it isn't actual propelling you. At work
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See my post on the same topic.... www.freel2.com/forum/topic8570.html Upgraded to an ex demo, 7 mth old, Rimini Red/Ebony Napoli Auto HSE on 28th Jan 2011, added roof rails, mudflaps and side strips.
Gone - A great 57 Plate, Auto SE, Bought Feb 2009, Roof Rails and Mudflaps added on purchase. Blue colour, anything but drug dealer black.....

Thanks again. You asked about my experience. I have no formal off road training and I don't off road for its own sake. However I do have around 40 years of getting to fishing spots and similar in off road conditions including in 2wd cars. The Freelander is my 6th LR (slow learner?) the previous ones being old Rangies or Discos all with manual centre diff lock and great wheel articulation.

My experience is that wheel spin is to be avoided in most situations and often a spinning wheel can be persuaded to grip by backing off and reapplying the power gently. A spinning wheel can initiate side slip, dig a big hole and damages the track. Yes, as a last resort more power can work in some situations such as mud over a firm base when it is necessary to dig down to the base.

With the Freelander I've had an episode on a narrow sandy/rocky track that needed walking pace. There was a small tree trunk across the road which stopped the car and it sat wheel spinning. Adding more power eventually created grip but the car immediately accelerated to running pace which was for to quick for that track (and my new car).

I need to play more now I understand how the traction control works but I remain sceptical that it gives satisfactory off road performance.

Cutch

Cutch - I'm hearing you. There have been numerous times when I have been in the middle of nowhere and good traction is critical in ensuring you don't get stuck - those moments where you know if you don't get it right, it's a couple of days walk to get help! I was also taught not to spin wheels whenever possible. I'd love to know how to best prepare the FL2 for those really tricky scenarios (eg: very steep, slippery, downhill slope, one small(ish) log to get over but you come to a halt trying to get over it and the wheels begin to spin. Even in 1st gear, revs are low since you want to go as slow as possible. Going to the higher revs in order to activate the traction control might launch you over the small log but also at an undesirable pace down the slippery hill (not good!). Hill desent won't help now will it???

No but the brake pedal will.