Hi All.

Picked up our new Freelander 2 31st March and within 3 weeks low coolent warning had come on.

Refilled and within 500 miles we were back to minimum so rung dealer who 'blew' through the system and refilled. It then went from max to minimum in 250 miles!

In reality it is losing 1 litre of water / coolant every 250 miles. My fear was that it was going into the engine as there was no external sign of a leak so filled the oil to dead on max and subsequently no movement in the oil level and no sign of water.

Freelander has now been in the garage for two weeks and they can't find the problem. Dealer advised that they are now stripping down the engine and replacing parts until they can find the leak. Rung them today and they are awaiting instructions from Landrover technical support as to proceed! I am getting seriously worried and thinking of asking for my money back or a replacement.

Any ideas and has anyone else had any problems like this? We love the car but this is being marred by what is going on.

A very worried owner!

Sounds like a very good reason to reject a faulty Friday car, and get the dealer to replace it with a proper one.

Theres plenty of really satisfied owners, myself included, out there. Looks like you've just had a bad start.

Mark Freelander 2
TD4 GS
Shiney fantastic Baltic Blue
Detachable Witter Towbar

Thanks for your reply Mark.

I suppose the question is how much more time do I give them as I am hoping that they will find the leak, fix it and I can get on with enjoying my lovely new motor. I notified them of the coolant loss within 4 weeks of receiving the car which according to the Sale of Goods Act puts me in a strong position to ask for a replacement or my money back.

The car is now in with them for its second stint and as they don't sem to be able to find the problem the ball is rather in their court and their problem as they are having to provide me with a courtesy car which is a Discovery and not cheap.

Ultimately I get the feeling that they are stuck as to what to do from here and with time ticking on and it increasingly costing them in terms of the hire car and technician time, if it is not sorted by Friday they are going to have to come up with some sort of solution as this just can't go on.

It will be interesting to see what they come up with. Either way I'll let you all know what they decide to do.

see my reply in 'general - water coolant'

Speak to trading standards, rejection isn't a straight forward process, but I too would be worried about loosing coolant like that. D4 HSE Lux for me
FL2 HSE Zermatt & Alpacca for the wife now gone
Skoda Yeti L&K for the wife.

I think there's a balance to be struck between standing up for your rights, and also being reasonable. Every car dealership (and just about any retailer) will be well used to dealing with the ranting "I know my rights" type of customer, who almost invariably don't know their rights and are normally totally unrealistic in their demands.

I would say (as others have already) give the garage chance to sort this for you. Establish what timescales they expect to have it sorted by, and push them for a positive response on what they will do if they don't meet this commitment (not just a woolly "We'll have to reconsider" or "we'll have to speak to LR". Don't be unneceassarily aggressive though, be professional and they'll be more inclined to work with you and return your calls.

And make sure you do know your rights, self-appointed "experts" spout a lot of rubbish about the Sale of Goods Act on the Internet (not having a go at anyone on these forums by the way). Spend a few moments doing some research yourself or get some professional advice.

I agree with you Nightfox, ranting has no effect, as you say know your rights, the act is Section 14 sale of goods act 1979/1994 and section 13 & 14 supply of goods & service act 1982
I also accept you will need to give the dealer a chance to put right in an ACCEPTABLE REASONABLE TIME.
If you are to go down the legal road, you need to reject the goods under the above acts
Hope this helps
David David

As you've driven the car since March, it cannot be unfit for purpose - you would have to have rejected it with the 1st month. You must now give the dealer a minimum of 3 attempts to cure the problem, then you can start rejection procedure if it hasn't been fixed at the third attempt. You would also be well advised to ask the dealer to arrange for you to meet the regional LR investigation engineer at their premises so you can all discuss the problem and your grievances direct with LR's rep. How can carbon have a footprint, it has no feet?
Now driving - RRE Coupe Dynamic Lux Auto with Plus pack, Fuji White, Ebony, SD4 with tow pack
Gone - 2010MY FFRR TDv8 Stornoway and Ivory, Privacy - the pace of a TDv8 RRS, the incomparable grace of a Range Rover
Gone but will be missed- RRS Tdv8 HSE Stornoway Grey with Ebony Leather
Gone (only a little missed) RRS Tdv6 2.7SE Giverny Green/Aspen
Defender 90 County HT in Epsom Green

As Tim rightly says, you cannot just reject the car as 'unfit for purpose'. My car had been in for repair five times, totalling two weeks in the first eight weeks of ownership....and still not all the faults were fixed. I never shouted at the dealer, but spoke rationally and resonably and still get on well with the staff there as it is not their problem that the car has faults, however their communcation with each other from front desk to service Manager and the technicians was weak!!!, but that is a seperate issue to the car itself. As David says it is section 14 of the Sale of goods act and providing everything is recorded and reasonable time and actions are taken and offered, and you stick to the rules of engagement, you can have the car replaced.

What annoys me is the apathy many dealers have..well its not their money that has been spent on that car and they should be more willing to resolve things and keep you informed. It was my dealers apathy that drove me to my actions..if they had apologised for the inconvenience and inability to recify the car I dare say I would still be taking it back to get it fixed now, as I am just as curious to see why these faults occur as the next person.

You may wish to call your local trading standards office who will give you all the advice you need, even the point that if goods are out of warranty, you can still get things replaced or your money back!!!!

Many thanks to you all for going to such trouble.

Rest assured when talking to them I have been polite, calm and understanding at all times and my relationship with them remains a good one.

What you have all provided me with is a very good escalation process to follow if things aren't sorted and as suggested I have a record from day one of the water loss and refills I have had to make. I am sure I won't have to escalate but it is good to know the option that are open me should the problem not be fixed.

They do accept that there is a leak and when I spoke to them they were in the process of replacing two parts within the coolant system which are basically the only places that water could be leaking from that aren't visible.

The good news is that they are confident the water isn't getting in the engine.

I'll keep you informed as they hope to have it all fixed and ready for collection tomorrow assuming the leak stops after testing.

Jonno

Great news... after 2 weeks they found the problem.

Basically the connector that goes into the Freelander 2 s heating system for warming the cabin is double skinned to protect it from external knocks and to insulate it.

When they took the connect apart and undid the protecting sleeve there was dried residue inside it and on starting the engine a small amount of water / coolant started to emerge from a faulty seal.

I'm so relieved it was a simple problem and that we were basically just very unlucky.

Our baby is now back with us and performing like a dream ... we absolutely love this car.

Thanks again for all your words of support during the dark days when our baby was receiving treatment and we feared that something major was wrong and that water could have been getting into the engine.

Jonno

Guys,

Apologies for not keeping you informed.

Car has now been in to try and find the water leak on three seperate occasions. (Now in on a 4th stint) They had apparently found the problem and I was due to pick it up yesterday. They took it for a 100 mile drive and lo and behold, the coolant tank is below minimum again. (Indeed over time they have putover 600 miles on the clock having to test it!)

Since buying the car 31st March it has been in the garage for just under 5 weeks constituting more than 25% or one in four days of my ownership.

They have tried to fix / find the water leak on 3 separate occasions and failed.

My fear is that if pressurising the system and testing it continuously cannot enable them to find the leak there is only one place the water is going .... in the engine!

I wrote to Land Rover HO earlier this week and spoke with them on the phone yesterday stating that I felt that this week would be their last opportunity before I handed back the keys or they provided me with a replacement. The very helpful girl gasped when she reda all the notes on the car and when I mentioned my rights re refund / replacement she commented that yes we had followed protocol in giving them sufficient opportunity to put this right.

The dealer is due to call me Monday and I intend to give them this week to fix the problem but to put them on notice that if it is not sorted a week to ay we intend to enforce our rights and insist that they replace the vehicle with a brand new one or give us back our money. Rest assured we have a fanstasic relationship with everyone at the dealership and have remained calm and collected at all times but think it is now time for resolution.

Thoughts and opinions please.

Agree with you completely, and even if they do fix it I would take issue with the 600 miles they've clocked up on it.

These issues can happen and unfortunately not every car can be 100% which is no consolation to you, but at least you are keeping level headed about it.