OK at my wit's end

Changed oil and fuel filters.

Car ran for quite a few minutes after I finished then stopped. Now I can't get it to start at all. It seems to nearly catch but is accompanied by some bass knocking from front left of engine bay.

I suspect the HP pump has no fuel. I've used all manner of ways to get fuel in the lines - sucked from the filter fuel return line (strong even flow) fuel rail return line (eventually good flow) and the filter inlet line.

The car won't run so I haven't looked for error codes.

How can I be sure the filter to HP pump line has fuel in there - it has always looked like it has an air bubble in there.

Not only do I have work this week, but I have a rare as hen's teeth medical appointment, and towing a caravan 8 hours up the coast on holiday next Sunday.

Argh.

Thanks for any help.

But please no comments about only using LR branded parts. MY11 SD4 SE Auto

Last edited by ozjeff62 on 4th Nov 2023 12:27 pm. Edited 1 time in total

Sound like a air lock in the fuel supply? did you prime the fuel filter with the correct tool ?
You might have to crack open the injectors one by one a practice which is frowned upon but maybe
the only answer 2013 FL2 XS.
Defender 90 300 TDi.
Defender 90 300 TDi CSW.
1964 MGB Roadster.
1944 Willys MB "Jeep" with bullet holes. (gone)
17 hand Irish Drought Thoroughbred (mostly lame)
Nagging Old Boiler.

Mahatma Gandhi said if there is an Idiot in power those who elected him are well represented. The Enemy is our own corrupt Government.

There are warnings about cracking open Piezo injector lines. Please read before you go ahead.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/files-180...tors-1.pdf

I use a pump kit or else fill the Filter with fuel, can be done via the water valve with a finger over the bottom hole

Did you pre fill the fuel filter before fitting or vacuum suck the fuel into the filter first?
It will initially start as it uses the residual fuel in the rails.. however after that it will stall unless you have primed and filled the filter..

What a pickle! I haven't been in your situation so I can only offer moral support and theories, sorry.

First off, is there fuel in the tank? No judgement, but we've all been there.

It does sound like air where it shouldn't be, so on the strictly mechanical side of things it sounds like there is fuel in the system to be picked up, but either it isn't getting to the HP rail or something else is going on (see below, electrical).

- Could you have an air leak on the suction side? I've had farm pumps with a tiny seemingly insignificant leak at the pump/hose junction refuse to pick water up out of a dam. Fixed that by making the joint airtight.
- The pre-2010 manual describes bleeding the fuel system by manually priming the filter and pump with a special tool (310-163) a priming hand bulb, which looks deceptively simple, but I think you have been here already... Reviews online indicate that getting the right connectors, flow direction, pump orientation and so forth make it considerably more difficult than the manual suggests. I'd consider some sort of electric fuel pump with clear lines might be an alternative, not cheap though. The Haynes manual indicates that it will take a few goes on the starter with the throttle wide open to get it to run after using the priming pump.
- I'm also thinking that positive head pressure on the filter inlet might be a hillbilly way of overcoming pickup pump supply issues, e.g. gravity feeding from a small tank ... but man is that fraught with problems and danger. Like, no way to shut off supply, open fuel containers, potential for spills and so on. I do hope you have spills kit, an extinguisher handy and an escape route if you're that desperate though. Do be careful, and if you're not could you film it for youtube please?
- Alternately, pulling a vacuum on the return side somehow might help. Intermediate stage tank with about 10 litres capacity would be good to purge it properly. Giant syringe, venturi pump, oil extractor pump, electrical vacuum pump and so on. If you have an air leak this will show it, with foamy or no fuel coming through. Pulling is way safer than pushing, I think.

On the electrical side I wonder if there is some system state registered (e.g. fuel rail pressure) that is inhibiting operation/starting? Error codes might help to understand what the computer thinks is going on: if it's upset about something, it could refuse to fire the injectors or some other thing to prevent an overly lean mixture or some other damaging situation... You might be able to reset it and make it happy again.

Just a few thoughts. Hope sleeping on it helped, always does for me.

As the problem has only happened since you changed the fuel filter & you are 100% certain that the system has been bled properly, I’d suggest you try a different fuel filter to begin with, or even refit the old one. (Now Sold). 2008 Freelander 2 (Nazca Sand) SE TD4 Auto. Statutory write off & on WOVR for hail damage but still road legal.
171037Km as of 09/05/22
Superchips Bluefin Flash
Nanocom Evo II (also sold)

Mechanic has had it for a few days now. I suspect it was looked at in the afternoon of Day 3 after I rang for info and "no one was around" to talk to me.

Initially chastised for not fitting the drain plug in the filter. The what now??? I'm keen to see the filter when it comes back.

As I got solid flow from all the return ports and the inlet port I don't know how there could be a hole in the bottom of the filter. Anyway that's a different fight that may not be worth thinking about right now.

He is leaning towards telling me the HP pump has finally failed completely.

The car ran for about ten minutes after servicing the filter. It wouldn't do that if there was no fuel in the filter. It might run for a minute if that.

Anyway, a few months ago Sydney's alleged leading independent LR mechanic told me they couldn't get hold of an HP pump - except from LR UK for about $6000. And they wouldn't fit the $1000 pump I could source.
We'll see what happens tomorrow.
Don't like my chances of getting to Coffs on Sunday, Badger. MY11 SD4 SE Auto

The FL2 needs a LR (or equivalent) filter, with a built-in thermostat. Other filters will cause (fuel starvation) problems.

https://www.freel2.com/forum/topic38083.ht...uel+filter FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 85k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 12th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

I’ve fitted these for years here, & never had any issues!

https://rycofilters.com.au/part/Z1067 (Now Sold). 2008 Freelander 2 (Nazca Sand) SE TD4 Auto. Statutory write off & on WOVR for hail damage but still road legal.
171037Km as of 09/05/22
Superchips Bluefin Flash
Nanocom Evo II (also sold)

IanMetro wrote:

The FL2 needs a LR (or equivalent) filter, with a built-in thermostat. Other filters will cause (fuel starvation) problems.

https://www.freel2.com/forum/topic38083.ht...uel+filter

Yeah, I've seen all this.

I reckon. The thermostat keeps the fuel to a minimum 10 deg C? That's going to be irrelevant in most parts of Australia most of the time. Certainly is here lately, it was 30 degrees this week.

What is an "equivalent" filter?

As Badger says, Ryco is a well-known and trusted aftermarket brand here. I've fitted other brands - no problems (apart from being able to fit and prime without making a mess). This one was Wesfil - Coopers. The packaging actually says it is equivalent to the Ryco part number. Mechanic has fitted a Mann.

Anyway hope I get the filter back so I can sus it out.

Get the car back some day too. MY11 SD4 SE Auto

What is an "equivalent" filter?

wondering same, somebody could make list?

is Coopers fuel filter equivalent, because i have one of that model and soon trying to swap it on place

OEM Filters are made by Purflux also used by Ford and Peugeot, though some say Bosch filters are ok ? 2013 FL2 XS.
Defender 90 300 TDi.
Defender 90 300 TDi CSW.
1964 MGB Roadster.
1944 Willys MB "Jeep" with bullet holes. (gone)
17 hand Irish Drought Thoroughbred (mostly lame)
Nagging Old Boiler.

Mahatma Gandhi said if there is an Idiot in power those who elected him are well represented. The Enemy is our own corrupt Government.

+ for Bosch

All I can add is :
I follow the JLR protocol - using a hand bulb pump inserted inline between fuel tank and filter. I cut off one the connectors from the old filter to make an adapter to attach the hand pump tubing.

I've never needed to prefill the new fuel filter.

When priming you can hear air bubbling in the fuel tank. When all the air is flushed through, the bubbling stops and the bulb becomes much firmer.

The car has started every time after this with minimal cranking. Jules

Thank you Jules, but not helpful mate.

I did the hand bulb, I did the air vacuum, I did the mouth suck - it ran for 10 minutes before it died. I may have thrown a red herring into the barrel with the thread title - ths may have nothing to do with priming the filter.


Re: Purflux are "genuine". What do people mean by genuine? Do Purlfux come in LR boxes? Another thread on this forum claims Purflux and Coopers are the same. Is that true? Why do some give Bosch a thumbs up? Do any of you know exactly what brand of filter your mechanic uses? The one I replaced has no branding on it. It was installed by an independent RR specialist. How do I know what he used?

We really need empirical evidence, not anecdote and opinion. MY11 SD4 SE Auto