Does the turbo sound like this ?

&t=184s

Hello everyone,

Yesterday evening a mechanic friend of mine was visiting me. He also asked me everything I had already repaired and replaced.

Then he asked if I had ever driven the car without the drive belt? You could drive about 20 minutes without breaking down.

So, warmed up the engine and removed the belt.

What can I say: I immediately noticed that the whole car drove much, much smoother and had no misfires under acceleration, no turbo whistle and took off like a rocket.

We then checked everything again:
- Main Pulley: ok
- Belt tensioner: new and ok
- Little Pulleys: ok
- Alternator: ok and over-run clutch free
- Air conditioning: free run when clutch switched off
- Power steering: ok, but:

The servo oil smells burned and is almost black. I then started the engine and my friend turned the steering wheel. The whole body vibrated and wobbled with effort. Not that somewhat tough feeling when you move the wheels while stationary, but rather choppy and stiff. But the steering wheel turns relatively easily.

And then we noticed that the servo oil in the reservoir was not moving properly and was almost standing still. Normally it has to flow really fast, doesn't it? I then sucked the oil container empty and there are dirt particles in the oil. I then filled a cup of "Nano repair oil for gears and steering" to test it. Turned the steering wheel a few times and took a long test drive.

Not quite satisfactory yet, but 50% better! The idle is also much quieter now...

Question: Can a clogged servo filter, defective servo pump or steering slow the engine down so that it idles, feels strained, vibrates, the turbo howls louder than normal and fuel consumption increases?

The main vibration comes from the pedals and steering. Both are connected to the subframe and the steering gear.

I imagine when the filter is clogged, the pump will pump against a firm resistance as the circuit is blocked and the pressure in the system keeps increasing. In addition, everything is getting hotter and after a long drive, the engine has to work so hard that it starts to shake when idling... Pure theory!

PS: Please excuse my imperfect English.... 10 years school English and some help from Google translator

Hallo.

I would replace the steering fluid reservoir as it has an internal filter which gets clogged also use fresh power steering fluid of the correct type CHF which is green NOT red, then bleed the system of air by turning steering lock to lock but do NOT run the engine till all air is removed.

Gut Gluck. 2013 FL2 XS.
Defender 90 300 TDi.
Defender 90 300 TDi CSW.
1964 MGB Roadster.
1944 Willys MB "Jeep" with bullet holes. (gone)
17 hand Irish Drought Thoroughbred (mostly lame)
Nagging Old Boiler.

What he said. A 12 year old car and probably 12 year old power steering fluid. The power steering fluid reservoir’s built in filter is does block and is difficult to clear so for less than the cost of a Land Rover technicians tea break I’d change the reservoir and replace the fluid.

A great piece of trouble shooting. Who would have thought such a fault would cause these symptoms.
Well done, I think we all learned a little with this thread.

Hello everyone,

don't praise too soon, I don't really trust the peace yet

But there are indications that I could be right with my assumption. The servo pump could actually be defective:

- Driving without the drive belt, no vibration
- Vibrations mainly in the steering wheel and pedals. Whether stationary or driving, stronger under load.
- YouTube videos of other defective servo pumps, no matter which car manufacturer, similar noises and symtoms

But what is still holding me back at the moment is the fear of giving away money again if it fails. New pump (Hitachi, original part), filter and oil cost around €400 / £350

A used pump is €50 / £42, but if that's also broken I'll build a new bug.

First I will change the filter and the oil. But if that is only partially successful, I can always replace the pump.

What can I do to 90% diagnose a defective servo pump?

Good luck with the pump investigation, it does sound promising. Sorry that I don't know enough about failing power steering pumps to help, but maybe collecting some data on the failing pump would aid in diagnosing a successful replacement & repair. I would measure temperatures of inlet and outlet hoses, fluid temperature, fluid movement in the reservoir under load, how it sounds, and if there were any hot spots along the hoses or the rack (that you can get to and measure).

I'm concerned that the problem appears to be intermittent, so like you, I am cautiously optimistic but unconvinced that this will be the end of the story.

For example: I had a problem with my key fob when I first got my car that took some time and confidence to fix. It made me cautious about how I locked and unlocked the car and taught me to worry. Now that problem is fixed the weight is off my shoulders and I'm learning not to worry. However, that masked a different problem with a door latch sticking, and so it goes. It's not just a land rover thing either, as I went through a similar experience with my VW Golf.

see
https://www.freel2.com/forum/topic8893.htm...ring+flush Jules

@jules: Thank you for the link!

That helps me a lot and shows that I'm not completely wrong.

But I fear I have another problem. I drove almost 50km this morning and noticed that the air conditioning compressor is also causing trouble in addition to the servo.

When the air conditioning is switched on manually, a "surrrrrrrrrrrrr" noise is heard from the engine. But that's another topic... first the servo, then everything else!

Hello friends,

Today I installed a new pump (used original part in good condition) and a new filter and flushed the system with 2 liters of oil.

As soon as I started the engine, I noticed how smoothly the engine ran. The vibration of the last months is gone!!! The whine of the pump is also gone.

In a good mood, I took a longer test drive. Everything great.

But suddenly the power steering failed. It was no longer easy to steer, like the drive belt was gone or the engine was off.

I then turned on the oil container and the oil stood still and was no longer flowing as before.

I then lifted the wheels and, with the engine running, steered quickly from right to left several times. And from one moment to another the oil was flowing again and the steering was easy again.

I then lowered the car and set it on 2 wet metal plates so the wheels turn more easily. Everything is great, light and quiet!

But the new oil is green-brown and cloudy again. Could it be that there are deposits in the steering gear that have become loose in the meantime and some valve is clogged?

How can it be that the new oil is cloudy after 20miles test driving?

On Monday I will buy another 2-3 liters of oil and build a flushing device without the oil container.

Do you have an idea what the problem could be? Hopefully the steering gear isn't defective.

It could be possible that the used new pump is defective or as you say there are deposits in the system that could be from the first pump that failed and is contaminating the fluid? 2013 FL2 XS.
Defender 90 300 TDi.
Defender 90 300 TDi CSW.
1964 MGB Roadster.
1944 Willys MB "Jeep" with bullet holes. (gone)
17 hand Irish Drought Thoroughbred (mostly lame)
Nagging Old Boiler.

Thanks for the update Hoennetaler. It seems your incremental restoration of your land rover is proceeding normally (sigh), and it sounds like you're making progress (hooray!). It must be a great relief to have the engine running smoothly at last.

Yes, there could still be deposits in the system causing problems, or changing the pump knocked something loose. It could be debris jamming the valve, letting the pressure escape and causing your loss of power assistance. It is difficult to completely flush a system that is heavily contaminated, so it might take a few km to loosen up all the dirt.

Or it could be the steering rack seals failing, if your new pump runs a higher pressure than your broken one, and the seals were just hanging on before. Sometimes a fix exposes another weak point, and we have to keep chasing a problem.

The symptoms you describe are similar to this from Chrism551, bicyclerepairman, and sebastian_n7:

https://www.freel2.com/forum/topic38873.html?

So maybe pull a steering rack boot and see if there is fluid in there where it should not be.

Good morning,

maybe it will help someone in the future to get their noises and symptoms under control.

Step by step what I did yesterday:

- Drive belt removed
- Fluid removed from the oil tank and then disassembled
- 3 screws of the pump and high-pressure line removed, pump removed (right headlight removed, then there is more space)
- Used pump (same part number) installed
- Mounted the new and old oil tank according to the instructions and flushed the system with 2 liters of oil.
- Front wheels raised, Steering right, left, middle without engine
- Everything assembled and started the engine
- Turned the steering several times to the right and left and filled up the oil above the minimum but below the maximum.

What I noticed immediately after the repair:

- The steering worked very easily without snagging in all directions
- The oil in the tank flowed very quickly
- The belt tensioner no longer moves. Before that he wriggled a lot
- The annoying vibrations in the steering and pedals were gone
- And when accelerating, much more power than before
- Quiet and smooth idle, no more bouncing

What I noticed after the first test drive:

- 10 mile test drive was great, after 20 mile test drive it was no longer good
- Several short steering failures up to total failure. I've never had that before!
- Oil in the reservoir stopped flowing at all
- Oil cloudy again, green-brown
- Wheels lifted and steered right and left several times
- From one moment to the next the oil started flowing again, but not like it did at the beginning.
- Steering no longer failed, but stuck. Vibrations there again. (Scale 5 out of 10 as before).
- Is the oil filter clogged again? So clean and check again!

What have I learned:

- The vibrations from before came from the pump, the old one was definitely defective!
- The new, used pump doesn't seem to work 100% either. I never had a steering failure in the past!
- You cannot look at the pumps to see if they are defective. Both are 100% the same when turning the impeller by hand
- Flushing the system with 2 liters of oil is not enough to get the dirt out

What will I do:

- Check whether there are any leaks in the steering gear
- Buy new Hitachi pump, Same as LR but only 1/3 the price
- Buy 2-3 liters of oil
- Flush the system, but not over the oil container, but directly into a bottle
- Check whether there are any leaks in the steering gear


Last question at the community:

When your Freelander is standing still on the road and you turn the steering from right to left.

How's the feeling ??

Even and smooth or do you feel (due to the vehicle weight and tires) some kind of resistance or hooking?

On flat ground, engine warm after a drive, standing still. Steering from straight ahead to full left lock to full right lock and back again is even and smooth and there is no hesitation, notchiness, catching or change in steering effort at the wheel, or any perceptible change in sound from the engine.

Hope that helps, and you can make some progress.

Thank you, that helps me a lot!

I now think that the used pump and/or the steering gear is also defective.

After the repair, the car ran so quietly, calmly and had real power. To the point where the steering then completely failed. Now it runs just as bad as before.

I'm now getting help from an auto repair shop. But it's not that easy to find one:

"Oh, a Land Rover, better go to a specialist..."
Me: "No, it's a Ford/Volvo/Mistusbishi/Citröen/Peugeot mix..."