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Home > Technical > Throttle body noise - not the gear's
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gasman



Member Since: 02 May 2013
Location: Tyneside
Posts: 857

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4_e GS Manual Zermatt Silver

Hi Davyboy
Sorry I missed your post, it didn't appear when I checked for new posts. Very strange, I only found it by going back and checking my posts.
Anyway, thank you for taking the time to check your motor for me. Obviously this must be normal but I just hadn't noticed.
Interesting to hear what you said about the technician and the butterfly valve in the throttle body. My understanding is, it has no effect on the running of the engine. It's usual position is fully open to allow full air flow to the engine, then closes briefly on shutdown to prevent the engine running on. Once engine shutdown is confirmed, the valve springs open again and stays there.
This is why I don't understand the throttle motor buzzing or wining when the ignition is switched on.
It does however appear to stop making a noise once the engine is started.
So if you are busy working on the car with the ignition on, the throttle motor is going to be energised in someway. Surely this would cause damage or early failure of the part. Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Post #431060 20th Mar 2023 11:32 pm
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I Like Chips



Member Since: 25 Jun 2017
Location: Ascott Under Wychwood
Posts: 1438

United Kingdom 2011 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Indus Silver

I think the throttle noise on start, engine not on, is the unit checking and sending a signal to the ecu it's at the correct start position prior to firing up

Post #431067 21st Mar 2023 9:23 am
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jules



Member Since: 13 Dec 2007
Location: The Wilds of Warwickshire
Posts: 4569

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 SE Auto Firenze Red

FWIW my 2014 FL2's throttle whines, after switching off the engine, for a variable amount of time but it can continue whining for over 10 mins. Its done this since I bought it when it was 6 months old. Jules

Post #431068 21st Mar 2023 10:01 am
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gasman



Member Since: 02 May 2013
Location: Tyneside
Posts: 857

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4_e GS Manual Zermatt Silver

Thanks Chips, that makes sense.
I didn't think it was faulty, I just couldn't remember hearing it before.
Think I need a new ear trumpet. Whistle Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Post #431069 21st Mar 2023 10:04 am
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gasman



Member Since: 02 May 2013
Location: Tyneside
Posts: 857

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4_e GS Manual Zermatt Silver

Hi Jules.
I know about the shutdown procedure. If you drop the throttle body down a bit you can watch it.
Engine off, butterfly valve closes briefly then opens again briefly then closes again before finally opening and shutting down.
That's why it makes so much noise on shutdown.

I was concerned about the noise with the ignition on and engine off.
As the valve is already open, as it's spring loaded, just didn't seem correct. Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Post #431070 21st Mar 2023 10:13 am
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IanMetro



Member Since: 11 Sep 2017
Location: Somerset BS21
Posts: 2765

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 Metropolis LE Auto Fuji White

If you look amongst the fault codes P02Exxx you will find quite a few detailing failures during checking the 'Diesel Intake Air Flow', that is the position of the 'Throttle Valve'.
Also, as I thought it was an 'open or shut' case, I was surprised to see it mentioned as one of the methods of controlling the DPF Regeneration Temperature (page 1531 repair Manual)

Apart from the extensive checking of the Intake Air Valve's position, is there more to the actions of this valve than just stopping the engine? FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 76k+ miles) (MY2015)

Post #431071 21st Mar 2023 11:20 am
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Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 1793

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

The throttle plate will normally operate when the EGR is active, so it enhances the EGR function.
The plate has more than a fully open or fully closed state, as the ECM can set it to anywhere in between too.

I've had mine on live data, where it showed that when the EGR valve begins to open, the TB begins to close. 2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Soon to be sold.
Hyundai Ionic 5 Ultimate on order.
Gone. 2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE.

Post #431081 21st Mar 2023 3:25 pm
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gasman



Member Since: 02 May 2013
Location: Tyneside
Posts: 857

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4_e GS Manual Zermatt Silver

Well there you go. Never too old to learn.
Didn't know any of that.
I'll have to try and have a look at live data, as I Nodge says.
As I have no DTC's it would appear mine is ok. Just hadn't noticed the noise before.
Thanks again for everyone's input. Thumbs Up Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Post #431084 21st Mar 2023 4:44 pm
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Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 1793

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

Mine has started to make a clacking sound after shutdown, which is new. I'll have to put my diag on it again, as I've not done it for a couple of years. 2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Soon to be sold.
Hyundai Ionic 5 Ultimate on order.
Gone. 2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE.

Post #431085 21st Mar 2023 5:51 pm
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gasman



Member Since: 02 May 2013
Location: Tyneside
Posts: 857

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4_e GS Manual Zermatt Silver

Would it not be easier to loosen it from the manifold and just lower it down enough to see in side. Don't run the engine but if ignition on then ignition off and it will go through the cycle and you can see what is happening with the butterfly valve. Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Post #431086 21st Mar 2023 8:48 pm
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alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: RO
Posts: 4640

I little bit late, sorry ....
The spring inside is designed to keep the flap open when no power.
The motor is a simple DC motor which works against the spring and if powered directly and continuously will keep the flap closed.
In this light, in order for the motor to be able to keep the flap in various positions, it needs to be driven by a PWM signal.
It's normal to hear that sound, because it's the frequency of that PWM signal driving the motor.

Post #431109 22nd Mar 2023 10:21 pm
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gasman



Member Since: 02 May 2013
Location: Tyneside
Posts: 857

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4_e GS Manual Zermatt Silver

Thanks for jumping in Alex.
That makes a bit more sense. I must admit I thought it was a simple case of open or closed.
As it says down below, learn something new every day Thumbs Up Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Post #431112 22nd Mar 2023 11:41 pm
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jules



Member Since: 13 Dec 2007
Location: The Wilds of Warwickshire
Posts: 4569

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 SE Auto Firenze Red

Just as a reminder - you can buy repair kits for the throttle body gears from ebay .

I bought one for when the gears pack up. Jules

Post #431117 23rd Mar 2023 6:16 am
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Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 1793

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

The PWM signal to the motor is the most likely reason the gears wear in a position other than fully closed. When the motor whines from the PWM supply, there would be a small but rapid rattling of the gears, which will wear them.

A repair kit isn't the whole story, as the feedback potentiometer will also be subject to rapid micro oscillations, which will wear the track.

The throttle body isn't that expensive if bought from the correct supplier, so it's best to simply replace it. 2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Soon to be sold.
Hyundai Ionic 5 Ultimate on order.
Gone. 2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE.

Post #431121 23rd Mar 2023 9:24 am
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IanMetro



Member Since: 11 Sep 2017
Location: Somerset BS21
Posts: 2765

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 Metropolis LE Auto Fuji White

IanMetro wrote:
If you look amongst the fault codes P02Exxx you will find quite a few detailing failures during checking the 'Diesel Intake Air Flow', that is the position of the 'Throttle Valve'.
Also, as I thought it was an 'open or shut' case, I was surprised to see it mentioned as one of the methods of controlling the DPF Regeneration Temperature (page 1531 repair Manual)

Apart from the extensive checking of the Intake Air Valve's position, is there more to the actions of this valve than just stopping the engine?


Thanks Nodge and Alex for answering the question of what was happening.

And thanks Jules for finding the video that explains how car's sensors work in general.

https://www.freel2.com/forum/post431124.html#431124 FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 76k+ miles) (MY2015)

Post #431125 23rd Mar 2023 10:47 am
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