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IanMetro



Member Since: 11 Sep 2017
Location: Somerset BS21
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United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 Metropolis LE Auto Fuji White
Car Battery Mega Factory

I think that we are in danger of loosing JLR and the remaining Car Factories from Britain, if we don't put some Government money into building a very big Car Battery Facility.

I read today that £2bn has been found for smallish 'pet' projects around the country.

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said the money would create jobs and "spread opportunity".

The new Eden Project site in Morecambe, train services in Cornwall and a number of town centres are among the projects set to get funding.

But Labour said it was "a partial refund" on what the Tories "have stripped out of our communities".

It also said London and the South East were getting the most funding - though these are the two regions with the largest populations.


Why haven't they taken the opportunity to go positive on battery technology and buy the British Megavolt site, and go in to a proper partnership with a KNOWN and PROVEN battery maker, and get us a factory before it's too late.

It seems that since Brexit we are falling further and further behind the EU who already have many Battery Factories going or being built. Will the next and all future Land Rovers be built on the continent or further afield. [/i] FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 74k+ miles) (MY2015)

Post #428942 19th Jan 2023 9:34 am
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tenet



Member Since: 23 Jul 2009
Location: cotswolds
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If the future is battery manufacturing then how come British volt cannot get private finance. They struggled to turn a profit and I guess the money ran out. Should we the tax payers support it?
Should we do so then no doubt folk would be saying in a year or 2 how come we have wasted £billions. As sure as eggs are eggs if it were perceived to be a viable proposition buyer's would be queuing at the administrator's door. MY 09 GS manual in Lago Grey, Wood Co arm rest and side bumper strips - now sold.

MY 15 SD4 SE Auto Orkney Grey with colour coded Bumper Door Mouldings

Post #428944 19th Jan 2023 10:35 am
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dorsetfreelander



Member Since: 20 Jul 2013
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There was a big article about British Volt in the Financial Times a few weeks ago saying that it was a basket case. They hadn't decided on a battery chemistry and they only had expressions of interest from Aston Martin and Lotus (so really big volumes) and a vague agreement to talk about batteries with JLR. It was burning though cash at a high rate on salaries.
Incidentally my son recently got awarded his PhD (in geology) and was talking to three PhD chemists at the ceremony all of whom had been working on different battery chemistries. One had already been offered a job with JLR. Apparently the view was that it was a nightmare for battery makers as they could easily back the wrong chemistry whilst the car manufacturers would just go with the current best bet. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

Post #428945 19th Jan 2023 10:50 am
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Sidthecat



Member Since: 10 Sep 2017
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Supposedly the company were asked to meet targets but were nowhere near to any of them. Not sure if this was down to their own hopes and aims being unrealistic or the governments being simply unobtainable?

Post #428946 19th Jan 2023 12:49 pm
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tenet



Member Since: 23 Jul 2009
Location: cotswolds
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I believe Dyson is committing £billions into innovative battery technology. He abandoned the manufacture of EV'S at Hullavington Wilts in favour of developing solid state (?)batteries. MY 09 GS manual in Lago Grey, Wood Co arm rest and side bumper strips - now sold.

MY 15 SD4 SE Auto Orkney Grey with colour coded Bumper Door Mouldings

Post #428947 19th Jan 2023 1:05 pm
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IanMetro



Member Since: 11 Sep 2017
Location: Somerset BS21
Posts: 2747

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tenet wrote:
If the future is battery manufacturing then how come British volt cannot get private finance. They struggled to turn a profit and I guess the money ran out. Should we the tax payers support it?
Should we do so then no doubt folk would be saying in a year or 2 how come we have wasted £billions. As sure as eggs are eggs if it were perceived to be a viable proposition buyer's would be queuing at the administrator's door.


You will note that I said partnership with a KNOWN and PROVEN Battery Maker. I see no reason why the 'taxpayer' (country?) should not invest in this if they 'the taxpayer' (voter?) has already backed a Government that says we must all buy Electric Cars after 2030. Look on it as a long term investment for the good of the country (us and our children).

I am sure that if backed and guaranteed by the Government from the start it would easily gain (paying) partners and be able to sell shares or bonds, leaving the tax payer with little to do. (apart from buying a British Built EV)

It seems that since leaving the EU we are the victim of extra taxes on exports if they do not contain mostly British parts, although now being out of the EU I hope we can support our own Companies as we wish.

I am sorry that I feel so strongly about this but during my career I have worked for two different British World Class Companies, and watched as they sold off bits, cut back/de-skilled the workforce, and final were subject to a (Foreign) Take Over.

We must take any opportunity that will reverse the last 40 years of failing to invest in our own industrial base.

PS I would willingly buy shares in such a Government backed venture. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 74k+ miles) (MY2015)

Post #428962 19th Jan 2023 4:31 pm
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tenet



Member Since: 23 Jul 2009
Location: cotswolds
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Interesting article on the demise of the company.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/the-collapse-of-britishvolt

I note that the UK government invested £100 million which is presumably lost.
Outwith the why's and wherefores of its demise I do agree with your sentiment that we need to build more. The current government need to attract business rather than raising taxes on business which just drives entrepreneurs into the welcoming arms if our competitors. MY 09 GS manual in Lago Grey, Wood Co arm rest and side bumper strips - now sold.

MY 15 SD4 SE Auto Orkney Grey with colour coded Bumper Door Mouldings

Post #428968 19th Jan 2023 6:55 pm
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IanMetro



Member Since: 11 Sep 2017
Location: Somerset BS21
Posts: 2747

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As far as I know the money was never advanced to BritishVolt.

So it is still there if JLR want to partner a known battery maker, and apply.

Last year, Britishvolt asked the government to advance £30m of a promised £100m in support, but was refused as the company had not hit agreed construction milestones to access the funds.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64303149 FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 74k+ miles) (MY2015)

Post #428972 19th Jan 2023 7:24 pm
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tenet



Member Since: 23 Jul 2009
Location: cotswolds
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Thankfully UK Inc didn't invest (according to your link)otherwise it would probably lost the lot. The organisation seemed to be acting in a very cavalier manner with private jets and 6 star accomodation. It reminded me of the DeLorean fiasco of the 80s. MY 09 GS manual in Lago Grey, Wood Co arm rest and side bumper strips - now sold.

MY 15 SD4 SE Auto Orkney Grey with colour coded Bumper Door Mouldings

Post #428981 19th Jan 2023 8:37 pm
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jules



Member Since: 13 Dec 2007
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It appears UK National & local Gov has a history of projects not fulfilling their goals - glad they didn't chuck our money into this unwise investment.

Edited following doubts about source info Jules

Post #428986 19th Jan 2023 9:16 pm
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jules



Member Since: 13 Dec 2007
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My own experience of the NHS's NPfIT was disappointing to say the least - starting with laudable goals it was in retrospect overly ambitious and was eventually cancelled - estimated top have cost the tax payer £10billion a decade ago.

https://www.henricodolfing.com/2019/01/cas...aster.html
with case study ref at the end. Jules

Post #429006 20th Jan 2023 11:29 am
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Aveling



Member Since: 24 Mar 2011
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We've had a lucky escape here in Wales - Britishvolt were looking at a site in South Wales, close to Cardiff Airport - luckily they decided to go elsewhere - no doubt the Welsh Assembly would have thrown millions of pounds their way to secure a presence.
The assembly already wasted millions on groundworks for the failed Ineos Grenadier assembly plant which was meant to be coming to Bridgend.

Post #429008 20th Jan 2023 11:58 am
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dorsetfreelander



Member Since: 20 Jul 2013
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I do a fair bit of investing and have looked at the battery market. The general view is that investing in batteries is quite high risk as new chemistries will come and go for a few years until it settles down. It's a bit like biotec in some respects and how do you pick a winner? For big storage systems on the National Grid it doesn't matter what the weight and power density will be but for automotive use it's going to be all about storage density and weight ie kWh/kg and for the first few years there will always be a better battery coming down the tracks. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

Post #429022 20th Jan 2023 7:05 pm
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