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Lightwater



Member Since: 21 Aug 2014
Location: Sydney Northern Beaches
Posts: 4729

Ukraine 2013 Freelander 2 2.0T SE Auto Fuji White

Down under we have to get a plumber for anything other than a washer.

Some of the regulations with tanks AS/NZ xxxx (Australia Standards & New Zealand. Basically a copy of ISO (International Organization for Standardization))

You need a tray & drain or cut off valve. Better still, both, with the drain slightly above the cut off float switch so the tank can leak its total water volume outside.

AS/NZ 3500 clause; 5.4.1 Concealed water storage tanks All water containers, cold water storage tanks, cold water storage tank fed water heaters or storage water heaters that are installed in roof spaces, in cupboards or otherwise. The safe trays shall be drained by safe wastes complying with Clause 5.4.4. Notwithstanding the above requirements, mains pressure water heaters may be installed on a safe tray without a safe waste, provided a leak protection device is fitted adjacent to the cold water inlet and upstream of any expansion control valve.

Then you have the tank output temperature of 55°C but that is another whole story. Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

Post #425860 11th Oct 2022 1:20 pm
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Boxbrownie



Member Since: 17 Mar 2019
Location: Looe
Posts: 2053

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 i6 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

The 55C cannot be for legionella that’s needs at least 60C….why the 55C? Regards

David

Lovely i6 has now gone, but not me......

Please let me know if anything in my post offends you, as I may wish to offend you again......

Post #425865 11th Oct 2022 5:32 pm
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dorsetfreelander



Member Since: 20 Jul 2013
Location: Dorset
Posts: 4341

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 XS Auto Loire Blue

[quote="Boxbrownie"][quote="dorsetfreelander"]
Is your system pressurised or have you a header tank?

It's a low pressure system with a header tank, We are not on the gas main and have an oil fired Rayburn which does cooking, hot water and central heating. There isn't much pressure upstairs as the surface of the header tank is only about 7 feet above the top of the hot water cylinder so only about 0.25 bar. Hopefully the leak is coming from the immersion heater screw thread. That will be a job for next weekend to drain oiff some water and have a look after scraping some of the foam off. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

Post #425871 11th Oct 2022 6:33 pm
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Lightwater



Member Since: 21 Aug 2014
Location: Sydney Northern Beaches
Posts: 4729

Ukraine 2013 Freelander 2 2.0T SE Auto Fuji White

The tank is hotter, but as the hot water comes out of the tank it is mixed with cold water going into the tank with a temperature valve.

A pain in the neck if you have a long run, then you lose additional heat. Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

Post #425872 11th Oct 2022 7:03 pm
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Dartman the one



Member Since: 04 Apr 2013
Location: Seville, Spain
Posts: 1650

England 

Though modern piping and clylinders are great and far cheaper than copper it still pays to have some copper in the system, copper is an excellent biocide, hence it use in antifouling, there is a thought that the problem with new hospitals and water contamination is the result of using the cheapest materials rather than copper and that the loss of the copper allows all sorts of microbes to adhere to the pipework and cylinders.
So ok in the central heating but keep some in the domestic water side. my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

Post #425891 12th Oct 2022 8:22 am
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Boxbrownie



Member Since: 17 Mar 2019
Location: Looe
Posts: 2053

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 i6 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

Lightwater wrote:
The tank is hotter, but as the hot water comes out of the tank it is mixed with cold water going into the tank with a temperature valve.

A pain in the neck if you have a long run, then you lose additional heat.


So the “hot tap water” must not be more than 50C…..that makes sense, so there is a thermostat controlled valve exiting the cylinder, good idea actually and cheaper than having to have a thermostatic tap at each outlet. Regards

David

Lovely i6 has now gone, but not me......

Please let me know if anything in my post offends you, as I may wish to offend you again......

Post #425894 12th Oct 2022 9:56 am
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Boxbrownie



Member Since: 17 Mar 2019
Location: Looe
Posts: 2053

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 i6 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

Dartman the one wrote:
Though modern piping and clylinders are great and far cheaper than copper it still pays to have some copper in the system, copper is an excellent biocide, hence it use in antifouling, there is a thought that the problem with new hospitals and water contamination is the result of using the cheapest materials rather than copper and that the loss of the copper allows all sorts of microbes to adhere to the pipework and cylinders.
So ok in the central heating but keep some in the domestic water side.


I am afraid that theory has been debunked many times as the copper pipework needs to be a massively longer than any installation would be to be effective, not to mention that after just a few months with most water quality the internal walls of the copper pipe gets a coating which prevent leaching of the copper.

This theory comes from the fact there are very effective methods of controlling legionella with electromechanical biocidal treatments which produce silver and copper ions into the water, but these put high amounts of copper into the water compared to what can be leached from pipework. Regards

David

Lovely i6 has now gone, but not me......

Please let me know if anything in my post offends you, as I may wish to offend you again......

Post #425895 12th Oct 2022 9:59 am
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gasman



Member Since: 02 May 2013
Location: Tyneside
Posts: 857

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4_e GS Manual Zermatt Silver

[quote="dorsetfreelander"][quote="Boxbrownie"]

dorsetfreelander wrote:

Is your system pressurised or have you a header tank?

It's a low pressure system with a header tank, We are not on the gas main and have an oil fired Rayburn which does cooking, hot water and central heating. There isn't much pressure upstairs as the surface of the header tank is only about 7 feet above the top of the hot water cylinder so only about 0.25 bar. Hopefully the leak is coming from the immersion heater screw thread. That will be a job for next weekend to drain oiff some water and have a look after scraping some of the foam off.


It's more likely, the immersion heater joint has been leaking from the day it was installed. Be very careful when taking out the immersion, it's all too easy to twist and damage the cylinder at the point the boss is brazed on. Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Post #425946 14th Oct 2022 6:07 pm
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Wonderdust



Member Since: 23 Mar 2020
Location: Bucks
Posts: 138

United Kingdom 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Lux Auto Santorini Black

A full tank,drain once loosened, heat, either blow lamp or hot air gun and be gentle.

Post #425962 15th Oct 2022 5:00 am
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MartynB



Member Since: 08 Aug 2011
Location: Currently Rootless !
Posts: 1761

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Zermatt Silver

I did a similar job for a mate . I used a proper heater element ring spanner for the immersion to avoid twisting the assembly with a pair of big adjustables on two flats . The spanner was about £3 at screwfix . New fibre washer fitted and for the sake of belt and braces put liquid Teflon on the threads. To be honest if I was going to the trouble of taking out the heater on my own tank , I’d put a new one in just as preventative maintenance.,

As per Gasman’s post these tanks are so flimsy their integrity comes from the foam insulation . Long gone are the days you could take an old cylinder out , weigh it in , and have a good night out on the proceeds . 2009 GS Auto Zermatt Silver - Sold June 21 after 10 years of ownership

2016 Subaru Outback SE 2.0 diesel SE Premium Lineartronic Sold 2024 after 8 years and 80k miles . Best Car I ever owned !

2023 Toyota Hilux invincible X 2.8 Auto .

Post #425969 15th Oct 2022 11:57 am
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