Alternator belt broke and snagged timing belt. Possible likely damage to pistons and head.

I'm likely going to have to decide what to do . Any advice?

Is it worth a replacement engine??

Is that straightforward? Time? Cost?

Thanks

Too many variables and imponderables to answer.

Sorry to here of your problem. Was the auxiliary belt very old? Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

How many miles on the clock?
How many miles had the belts done ?

Its a rare event on this forum to hear of the cambelt going.

Cost depends upon what you can do yourself or not, and the repairs required. ?
Engine needs an assessment which needs disassembly (eg cylinder head off) - that has a cost in itself.

Get some quotes from your local garages and independent Landrover specialists. Dont bother with main Dealers - they are not interested in this sort of stuff IMO. Jules

the auxiliary belt - I have no idea of its age, though I had the timing belt and water pump replaced earlier this year. There was mention of a bolt coming off the alternator pulley, which may have caused it all to snowball

You must be gutted having just had the cambelt replaced.

The serpentine "alternator" belt has to be removed to get at the cambelt and so is often replaced along with the cambelt as its just a few quid more.

I'm naturally suspicious of garages (my "Arthur Daley" brother-in-law had one) and the explanation given to you sounds a bit dodgy to me. The serpentine belt is completely separate from the cambelt and they do not share any pulleys. The cambelt is enclosed within a cover and is set deeper towards the engine block.
I wonder if a bolt holding a cambelt pulley came loose. The tensioner pulley has to be undone to remove the old cambelt. It is usual to replace both tensioner pulley and idler pulley at the same time as their failure is catastrophic. Jules

Is the vehicle at the same garage that replaced the timing belt previously? Did you actually see the broken serpentine belt when the engine failed (at the road side) or is it just what you are being told? I find it difficult to see how a broken serpentine belt got inside the timing belt cover, unless the cover was broken. I would want to see the damaged parts at the repairing garage (unannounced visit) to understand what transpired. Good luck.

Agree with Jules and AJ918, the serpentine belt runs separately from the timing belt. I replaced my timing belt recently, a full set of covers enclose the timing belt then the serpentine or auxiliary drive belt is fitted over the pulleys driving the ac, power steering pump and alternator etc. My kit had a new serpentine belt included too which I fitted but even if it were to suddenly break, all would happen would be loss of powersteering, ac, etc etc, it would not interfere with the running of the engine. And in the circumstances where a belt failed slowly by fraying it could not physically get tangled with the timing belt because of the covers. Only possible scenario I could see this happening is if they failed to replace the covers when replacing the timing belt.
I suspect the garage, if it is indeed the same one is not being straight with you. I'd suggest seeking a second opinion unless it's all been stripped apart already, in which case you'll never know 🤔 Landrover - turning owners into mechanics since 1948

2014 Orkney grey Freelander SD4 GS.
2004 Zambezi silver Discovery 2 Td5 (Gone)
1963 Surf blue Morris Mini Minor Super de Luxe (my little toy)

I would think that it is worth paying for a (properly qualified) Independent Inspection, Advice and Report.

It may be that the garage who changed the belt may be wholly or partly to blame for the subsequent failure, and may have some kind of cover or warranty for their work.

Take advice, it may not be as bad as you think.

Also when dealing with garage, be polite but firm, and try forcing them into writing to you by perhaps emailing them with some queries. (It doesn't hurt to pretend to be a bit dim with them, if it forces them into complete disclosure of the problem, and their actions) FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 76k+ miles) (MY2015)

This story has passed under my eye before

pmabz wrote:

the auxiliary belt - I have no idea of its age, though I had the timing belt and water pump replaced earlier this year. There was mention of a bolt coming off the alternator pulley, which may have caused it all to snowball

I’m no mechanical expert so wouldn’t comment on where the fault might lie in your particular case- but the comments so far here on your options/ next steps resonate with what happened for us.

… Our MY09 TD4 HSE had to have an engine transplant at 133k miles following a head-off procedure that an Indy botched such that it allowed a valve to pop out inside the number two piston about ten miles later. Ironic was that we were driving home via the JLR dealership to possibly part-ex the FL2 for a Disco Sport when the engine failed.

First off, the Indy told me “it happens” - hmmm. I paid a separate Indy (not even in the same county) to assess it - including head back off- and they were adamant- no, that does not “just happen”.

So, I had the same do I/don’t I decision to make that you yourself now do.

The breakage/scrap value vs. exchange “short” engine cost wasn’t at all favourable in our case.

A “zeroed” re-conditioned exchange engine would cost around £4,500 fitted, a salvaged used engine still costs about half that to buy (plus fitting if you don’t do that yourself) - versus at best £2k worth of salvage on the car with dud engine because of the car’s age and relatively big mileage. Yours possibly has less mileage than ours had which might make it more favourable in your case.

Rather than buy another car, we exchanged the engine - key reasoning for us being we’d put 115k miles of it’s 133k miles on it and knew the car- it has towbar, dog guard, a few lighting upgrades, new tailgate struts, refurbished front seat bolsters and had just had new exhaust and four new tyres - all costs we wouldn’t recover- plus neither of us liked the DS and upgrading to a newer FL2 would also have cost more than the engine transplant…. You may not even have these kinds of considerations.

I was warned that a good outcome for me if I went to court (that being, recovery of all my costs in full) was at best 50-50, due to having to prove fault in the workmanship by the defendant Indy beyond doubt or counter-argument from them.

I got the second Indy to carry out the exchange and the car came back with the benefit of the “zero” mileage reconditioned engine with some warranty, and we remain happy with that - the car now has over 155k miles and is running perfectly.

My big note of caution starts here - The litigation route I went down was for consequential loss, so I first had to incur the loss by funding the lot up-front. In addition to the replacement engine, it cost me about £1,800 extra on things like getting the car towed elsewhere, legal fees and all the extra work that the other Indy had to carry out - including where the defendant Indy lawyer insisted on a further independent view that the original engine was indeed beyond economical repair- so we couldn’t even “exchange” the damaged engine unit with the exchange engine supplier, which added even more cost to the exchange engine at the time.

It took twenty-two months to get a court judgement against the Indy. They have eventually paid up close to £7k in total under the judgement.

So yes, I agree that you should get someone else to assess the damage and overall consequential loss and decide from there on your own circumstances and choice - and push the garage hard but professionally on this to compensate you.

As to taking legal action against your garage, it is very risky and expensive, so be sure to get lots of advice first and exhaust the other options first as well. It was worth it for us, as we were sure we could absolutely prove the incompetence that caused the engine failure…

… However, going by the barrage of questions and challenges that came up during that legal process, I’d strongly advise that you are very sure that there was faulty workmanship AND that it will withstand legal scrutiny before going down that route... Someone more mechanically-minded than myself needs to guide you on that one.

Hope that insight helps - not easy choices, and I wish you well with them. Let us know what happens. Lexus RX450H - 500 mile a week commuter- I just couldn’t trust in a newer RRS or DS for that….
2009 Freelander 2 HSE... 155K miles, we’ve done 135k of those, has done brilliantly on the commute and staying firmly put as car two in the household
2002 Jaguar XK8 Coupe... fun, fast, ours for 12 years and owes us nothing - so staying with us too…

pmabz wrote:

the auxiliary belt - I have no idea of its age, though I had the timing belt and water pump replaced earlier this year. There was mention of a bolt coming off the alternator pulley, which may have caused it all to snowball

I once owned an old Defender TD. After several years it started smoking. Took the head off to find all 4 pistons had valve impact damage from a cambelt failure sometime in the past.
2 pistons had cracks from one side to the other. One now had a hole through the crown (hence the smoking).
Interesting it took such a long time for the piston damage to become obvious.



I didnt repair it, I put a V8 in from a SD1 that I had bought years before for £75 Jules

The old 19J TD was not a good engine I had one with the same issues cracked pistons smoking Etc had to rebuild it, 2013 FL2 XS.
Defender 90 300 TDi.
Defender 90 300 TDi CSW.
1964 MGB Roadster.
1944 Willys MB "Jeep" with bullet holes. (gone)
17 hand Irish Drought Thoroughbred (mostly lame)
Nagging Old Boiler.