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ribama1



Member Since: 12 May 2021
Location: brisbane
Posts: 73

2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey
Towing: Transmission Oil and Engine Coolant Temperature

I have a 2007 Freelander 2, 2.2 TD4. It's my wife's daily driver and is also the car that we take on holidays towing a Jayco Eagle pop up caravan which has a GVM of about 1850kg.
On rare occasions the engine overheats when towing up steep inclines. We try to avoid the steepest of these but as you can see from the attachment even 15% grades are not uncommon around in Queensland (we did this road yesterday).
Transmission Oil Temperature
To try and get a better view of what is happening even when the dash temperature gauge is showing just below half I did our latest trip with the OBDII plugged in and on live data. My reader is the Autel MaxiAP200. As has been noted here in other threads, the engine oil temp does not read correctly, but it is possible to get accurate live data on both the engine coolant temperature and the transmission oil temperature.
Here is what I saw. When the ambient temp is around 25C, the transmission oil temp gets very quickly up to about 70C and then slowly rises to and seems to stay at between 93 and 100 while negotiating the typical grades found on highways in Australia while traveling between 85 and 100km/h. I have no clue if this is normal. For now, I'm just providing the data. When I come back into town (with stop start and 60km/k) the temperature climbs to 103-105C and when I park with the engine running the temp goes up to 115C until it slowly starts to drop.
Engine Coolant Temperature
The engine coolant temperature is more volatile/regulates itself better . It stays between 85 and 101 depending on acceleration and grade but unlike the Transmission Oil Temperature, it is quite responsive to a rest. The temperature drops quickly going down hill.
I've just come back from our last trip, so wanted to record these numbers while my old brain can remember them. I'll now do some research to see if I am cooking our engine and if there are any mods I should do to improve things while towing and I'll report back here later.
We often go into the mountains with the caravan and I know that the car is getting much hotter than this for brief periods. I don't know at what temp the car actually tells you it's overheating but with the live data we are far more likely to give it a rest, when before we pushed on.
If you have any thoughts on this please let me know.

Click image to enlarge


Last edited by ribama1 on 2nd Aug 2021 12:03 am. Edited 2 times in total

Post #410872 1st Aug 2021 3:30 am
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Bobupndown



Member Since: 26 Dec 2014
Location: Upside down behind the TV!
Posts: 2622

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 GS Auto Orkney Grey

Not had any data while using my Freelander but towed a big twin axle caravan to south of France and back in temps up to 40° with no issues. Previous Discovery 2 I had a nanocam mounted on the dash while towing. Coolant temps around 100° were normal. I had the electric cooling fan wired to a switch so I could turn it on when it was getting a little hot (Disco had the viscous fan always running as well). Assume you have checked that your electric fan is actually working? Landrover - turning owners into mechanics since 1948

2014 Orkney grey Freelander SD4 GS.
2004 Zambezi silver Discovery 2 Td5 (Gone)
1963 Surf blue Morris Mini Minor Super de Luxe (my little toy)

Post #410876 1st Aug 2021 5:45 am
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ribama1



Member Since: 12 May 2021
Location: brisbane
Posts: 73

2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

Hey Bob.
Thanks for your reply. Yes the fans are working. I replaced the motor on the main fan a couple of years back and both fans seem to be working fine. You may have seen another thread I started about fumes in the cabin. I wonder if the fan clicking up to full speed is actually blowing fumes back into the cabin air intake somehow, but that is another issue.

In regards to the engine temperature, I think the transmission oil may be the bigger issue. I got a quote of $750 a few years back to add an inline oil cooler to deal with the towing issue. It might be cheaper in the long run to do this. Stuff I've been reading online this afternoon suggests that letting the temp run at 220f or 105c really limits the life of the oil and the trans.

Matt

Post #410879 1st Aug 2021 7:41 am
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MotionInc



Member Since: 17 Jun 2019
Location: North America
Posts: 1278

Canada 2008 LR2 i6 SE Auto Tambora Flame

My experience, once the coolant temp hits 88 degrees, the transmission temp under load will eventually catch up and mirror the coolant temps within a few degrees. My coolant temps rarely get to 96+ but I recently replaced my rad fans with a Volvo dual fan model. Of course, my engine is the i6.

Post #410881 1st Aug 2021 7:56 am
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Andy131



Member Since: 09 Dec 2009
Location: Manchester
Posts: 2159

United Kingdom 

The transmission cooling is from a heat exchanger that uses the engine coolant. If the transmission gets hot and the engine doesn't then there is a problem with the heat exchanger. If the engine also gets hot then there is a problem with the engine cooling system.

Had real problems with mine at one point, turns out that regular off-roading has baked mud into the radiator and only 30% airflow was possible, solo not a problem, dragging a 1300kg kite up and down the hills of Cornwall and I had to stop to allow her to cool several times to get to our destination. Tried to clean the radiator and she made it home without stopping but the temperature was all over the place.
New radiator and 40C towing the van over the Pyreneese, stupid LR satnav up a mountain towing the van with roads that a mountain goat would have thought twice about - no issue, well apart from the co-pilots words of wisdom. Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Post #410882 1st Aug 2021 7:57 am
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ribama1



Member Since: 12 May 2021
Location: brisbane
Posts: 73

2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

Yes thank you both. I noticed that the two temperatures, coolant and trans oil do tend to move in lockstep but as the coolant temperature rises the heat exchanger seems to lose some of its ability to cool the oil. The oil temp then rises a bit further. It makes sense as the heat exchanger is pretty small and the coolant coming into it is already hot.
This is only an issue when towing so I'd prefer to avoid getting a separate radiator for the oil. I wonder if it might make the oil too cool when I am not towing. But it seems to me that the oil and coolant should always equalise because of the heat exchanger. hmmm have to make a decision before I tow the rig to Jindabyne, lockdown permitting. Thanks for your thoughts.

Post #410887 1st Aug 2021 9:08 am
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alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: RO
Posts: 4640

For the real hot climate zones, there is an additional air cooled transmission oil cooler.
Try to source it and install it, it's not so difficult.
Copy the complete link below to your internet explorer address bar and see it.

http://new.lrcat.com/#!/12111/57488/58867/4742

Click image to enlarge

Post #410892 1st Aug 2021 11:31 am
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merlinj79



Member Since: 13 Aug 2019
Location: San Diego
Posts: 313

United States 2008 LR2 i6 S Auto Tambora Flame

Yes, the coolant temp and tranny temp should be very close, since they share a heat exchanger.

A large difference (after warmup) would indicate a problem. If the tranny temp is much higher, the first thing to try would be reducing the drive load to get drive speed and engine RPM down, and into a lower gear. You'd probably have to be towing a trailer up a hill to overheat the tranny in normal conditions.

I've noticed that slowing down tends to cause coolant temp to go up when climbing hills, so it's a tradeoff.

The tranny fluid is *typically* going to dump heat to the engine coolant, so for that to happen the tranny temp will typically need to be at least slightly higher.

If the tranny is not working hard (very slow speed, coasting downhill?) the coolant might actually heat the tranny fluid. I'm sure that happens during vehicle warmup, since the engine coolant gets hot faster than the tranny.

Post #410908 1st Aug 2021 2:54 pm
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ribama1



Member Since: 12 May 2021
Location: brisbane
Posts: 73

2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

alex_pescaru wrote:
For the real hot climate zones, there is an additional air cooled transmission oil cooler.
Try to source it and install it, it's not so difficult.
Copy the complete link below to your internet explorer address bar and see it.

http://new.lrcat.com/#!/12111/57488/58867/4742

Click image to enlarge


Thanks so much Alex. I had no idea this was a possibility. The local LR specialist have sourced it and the connector lines for me (although they have never fitted one before). I've sent them your diagram to ensure they get everything. Thank you so much! They can't fit it until end October and I don't feel comfortable with the other shops around here, so its another job I will do myself but I enjoy working on the old girl.

Post #410927 2nd Aug 2021 3:16 am
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ribama1



Member Since: 12 May 2021
Location: brisbane
Posts: 73

2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

merlinj79 wrote:
Yes, the coolant temp and tranny temp should be very close, since they share a heat exchanger.

A large difference (after warmup) would indicate a problem. If the tranny temp is much higher, the first thing to try would be reducing the drive load to get drive speed and engine RPM down, and into a lower gear. You'd probably have to be towing a trailer up a hill to overheat the tranny in normal conditions.

I've noticed that slowing down tends to cause coolant temp to go up when climbing hills, so it's a tradeoff.

The tranny fluid is *typically* going to dump heat to the engine coolant, so for that to happen the tranny temp will typically need to be at least slightly higher.

If the tranny is not working hard (very slow speed, coasting downhill?) the coolant might actually heat the tranny fluid. I'm sure that happens during vehicle warmup, since the engine coolant gets hot faster than the tranny.


Thanks Merlin that all helps with my understanding. My circumstances are possibly different to most, but after thinking about it for a few years and now, having seen the actual temps on the OBD2 when towing up grades... I need the cooler and especially since I know there is a Freelander 2 designed for purpose oil cooler.

Post #410928 2nd Aug 2021 3:22 am
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Lightwater



Member Since: 21 Aug 2014
Location: Sydney Northern Beaches
Posts: 4704

Ukraine 2013 Freelander 2 2.0T SE Auto Fuji White

Earlier Freelanders had one radiator fan & hotter climates got the second smaller fan. So there are some cooling issues under heavy stress.

So an additional transmission cooler seems no surprise. Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

Post #410929 2nd Aug 2021 4:52 am
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Lightwater



Member Since: 21 Aug 2014
Location: Sydney Northern Beaches
Posts: 4704

Ukraine 2013 Freelander 2 2.0T SE Auto Fuji White
Re: Towing: Transmission Oil and Engine Coolant Temperature

ribama1 wrote:
Click image to enlarge


A bit like Thunderbolts Way

https://www.climbbybike.com/climb/Thunderbolts-Way/8605 Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

Post #410930 2nd Aug 2021 5:12 am
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ribama1



Member Since: 12 May 2021
Location: brisbane
Posts: 73

2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

I finally got the transmission cooler fitted. It was just a matter of taking off the front bumper removing the trans oil heat exchanger lines and replacing them with the ones designed for the cooler ….and then plugging it all in. It isn’t a big job. If I was doing it again I’d consider prefilling the cooler. I felt like I may have been short of tranny fluid for a bit and check the level 3 times in a week.

The cooler makes a huge difference. The temp generally stays at 80 now and recovers quickly after hills. The engine coolant temp gets a little higher than it did before when towing up hill. Yesterday it got to 110 for just a minute but when the downhill starts it takes just seconds to get back to 95 (which is its flat towing temp).

A very good addition for towing, I think, particularly if hilly and towing at the capacity of the fl2.

Post #413700 22nd Oct 2021 9:38 pm
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Bobupndown



Member Since: 26 Dec 2014
Location: Upside down behind the TV!
Posts: 2622

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 GS Auto Orkney Grey

Good job 👍
Is it specifically for the I6 or would it suit the diesels as well? Landrover - turning owners into mechanics since 1948

2014 Orkney grey Freelander SD4 GS.
2004 Zambezi silver Discovery 2 Td5 (Gone)
1963 Surf blue Morris Mini Minor Super de Luxe (my little toy)

Post #413707 23rd Oct 2021 9:31 am
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alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: RO
Posts: 4640

According with his profile and his first post, he owns a diesel... Very Happy

Post #413711 23rd Oct 2021 10:06 am
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