Hi davyboy

That is what I had, bubbles in the fuel line after the filter. I recon it is worn 'O' rings in the quick release connections. I have put a couple of turns of PTFE tape on the spigots, being careful not to get any near the openings. This appears to have stopped the bubbles in the fuel line, not sure if it has cured the issue completely. It does start better, just not as quick as it should.

I think a leak off test could be my next step just can't see how to remove the return fuel connectors, don't want to break them and cause more issues.

 Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

You can't do a leak off test on this kind of injector, as the spill line is running at 10 Bar or almost 150 PSI. 2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Soon to be sold.
Hyundai Ionic 5 Ultimate on order.
Gone. 2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE.

100% correct
You could read live data & rail pressure, stall engine and continue to read rail pressure and see how long it takes to drop
should hold for at least 10 sec. Jaguar x-type sport gone
Jaguar x-type 2.2d sport one of my best cars ever sadly gone
Freelander 2 GS auto 2008 most unreliable ever ! gladly gone
Freelander 2 GS manual 2013 only time will tell !

Thanks for that info Nodge, I didn't know that. It doesn't appear to be in my workshop manual either.

Thanks also 'oldgeezer' I have looked at live data and the pressure appears to drop off almost instantly.

Since tapping the connections at the fuel filter and stopping the air ingress it does start better. I think I'll just see how it goes for now. The injectors really should not be worn as the car has done less than 65k. Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Hello gasman, having read all your messages this evening may I mention something which may throw a little light at the end of your poor starting issue.
I have had poor starting and have never found the cause and just put up with it, gave up really, then the following story,

Just into the new year I noticed car parts for less we’re advertising genuine parts for freelanders so I bought a starter motor which stated two types, 1. Manual gearbox 2. Auto gearbox, both starters are denso which when it arrived I looked at the part and thought this is a job for the summer. I calculated a car of 2009 era, auto, 130000k miles, continental travelling how many starts has the original motor done? For the price my part was a quarter of what Euro car parts wanted, also other motor factors let alone genuine dealer prices, so I thought at that price it’s cheap and can afford it to stay on the garage shelf, I cannot remember where I read this particular poor starting issue someone was experiencing it may have been a story in auto express magazine a Honda crv where the owner had spent a fortune at a dealer, new injectors, pump, fuel lines even a new fuel tank, glow plugs filters but still had the crank, crank crank then the start. Eventually the car was sold out of frustration also expense. The car was purchased by a Honda hobbyist who had a little knowledge and he replaced the starter motor. Hey presto the poor crank issue had gone. It turned out that the starter motor had a massive current draw and this was pulling all the power/amps from all the ecu’s hence prolonged starting.




Well, last week my freelander failed to start for the wife, she rang me to say it wouldn’t start, bemused I turned up and yes no start just a clunk, checked the cambelt hadn’t slipped but no start. I found a large chunk of wood and thumped the starter motor, It started she drove it home but failed to crank again. So the starter motor event had to be done, really simple just watched YouTube. It was in the back of my mind, January to now if it’s the wrong part can it be changed? Anyway it was the correct part.

Now my starting, It starts really quickly, the engine spins and it starts, no prolonged cranking.. It was frosty on Wednesday morning no bother it just started, I have had the car from new and it’s never spun over so fast

Sorry for the long story but had to mention it.

Rgds Davyboy.

Now that is worth noting,
excellent piece Davyboy.
Dave DAVE.
I.A.M. F1rst Driver.
Gone 2003 Discovery TD5 Auto,
Gone 1986 Defender 90 Station Wagon
Gone 1984 Range Rover 3.5 Vogue Manual.
Gone 1970 Series 11A/3 SWB 3.5 V8 Hybrid
Gone 1964 Series 11A LWB Van
Gone 1966 Series 11A SWB Van
Gone 1964 Series 11A LWB Station Wagon,

That's very interesting Davyboy

I really appreciate you taking the time to write that long post.
I have assumed the starter is ok as it cranks at 180-200rpm according to live data. Maybe that is not enough.
Looks like I might have to bite the bullet and get a new starter motor and try it. It's not a difficult job to do once the front bumper is off for access. I had the starter off when I changed the cam belt.

Is Denso the original manufacturer part ?

I'll have a look around for prices.  Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Hi Gasman the starter motor is denso which is what I think is factory plus the front bumper does not need to be removed.

What I encountered was, air box, main positive on battery removed. Making sure the battery lead does not spring back. On the YouTube video it shows removing the bottom radiator hose, what I did I used cable ties around the hose then around the air box bracket to hold it back. You could use string or a ratchet strap but be careful.
The 8mm and 13mm starter motor nut connections, 3x 13mm starter motor bolts and a 8mm cable retainer strap on the crankcase or lower block.
The starter motor then is released and refitting is the reverse.

I still have the old motor, tomorrow I will resend you the part numbers from the label, mine a auto 2009 td4 hse

Even this morning the outside temp was 2 degrees, car on the drive the engine cranked so quickly it started, again tomorrow it’s cold again I will try and time from ignition on to running.

Rgds Davyboy.

Hi Davyboy

Part is on order from the same place as you, £156.82 for a Denso, part number 402670215 think it's LR007372 for diesel manual with 10 teeth.

I find it's easier to take the bumper off as my hands are not as flexible as they once were.

I'll let you know how it goes once fitted.  Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Hi Gasman so sorry for the late reply been busy replacing front brake discs and pads plus brake pads out on the rears for peace of mind
Didn’t realise yours was a manual gearbox so part numbers are different

There is no need to remove the front bumper all the work is done from the top just remove the air box and pull the bottom hose aside like I explained earlier

I was out in mine this afternoon and cannot believe how fast the engine cranks compared to the old starter plus immediate start

I measured the battery voltage before start, 12.9 volts with key in ready to hit the start button, then on cranking 11.4 to 11.7volts at 7 degrees C, the new starter motor is a blessing well I think, oh just to mention I did the extra earth cable from negative to starter bolt approx 12 months ago this didn’t nave any affect at all with the old starter motor, So it’s good luck.

Keep us all posted

ps I have been using AUTODOC recently for parts they are quite cheaper than euro car parts and even Brit parts.

Ok Davyboy.

New starter motor arrived on Monday, very impressed with delivery. Fitted on Wednesday, access through the top as you suggested. You are correct it is very do able from above, although very tight. All the bruises on my arms will eventually heal

Wanted to see what it was like if left over night. Just been out to try it and it appears to be a definite improvement. You can really hear the difference with the new starter and it does turn the engine that bit faster.
I'll see what it is like later next week when the temperature is supposed to drop.  Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Good evening Gasman, well when I saw the notification on email ie Gasman my first thought went to, New starter same cranking issue.

Well, I then thought which took me back once attending a training course in germany many years ago with Mercedes on a KE injection part 1 the trainer mentioned that certain diesels have their own starting and also cold cranking issues. Which makes me think your issue maybe normal, although with your engine. Jaguar Landrover have many corrections within the diagnosis route, and also reading all your issues plus your own remedies I really think after the starter motor replacement your issues mirror mine.

I do think that once you have spent considerable time effort and money like me I just think that if the starter motor spins without a flat battery eventually the engine starts your trying to fix a fault that cannot be fixed.

But it’s certainly does your head in.

I’m sure your not alone, I always think that if you buy a second hand car whatever the history is? It may be someone else’s problem.

Mine I was able to buy new, dealer service too and recognise that dealers after a certain age don’t want to know you.

Regards

Davyboy.

Hi Davyboy

I have not just acquired the car, I have owned it for 10 years so I know it well. It may well be that it's as good as it gets but I'll keep on tinkering. you never know.
As for dealers, well I just don't trust them. I have had some experience of them trying to profit from someone they thought had no mechanical experience. No intention to tar them all with the same brush but once bitten etc.
Going to strip down the old starter motor and see what it's like inside.  Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Stripped old starter motor down and it was in very good condition, so that's not the issue.

Still think its a fuel issue as I have no relevant codes, one for fan control module still trying to work that one out and one for stop start system, not looked at that yet.

Have been trying to obtain some replacement 'O' rings for the quick release fuel connectors, couldn't find any. Purchase a couple of 9.89mm quick release fuel connectors and robbed the 'O' rings out of them. Using a dental pick I replaced the 'O' ring in the connector that has the fuel temp. sensor in it.
Still have air bubbles going from the fuel filter to the fuel pump and it still takes too long to start.

Looking at live data fuel pressure is there almost instantly when the the engine is cranked, so would the small bubbles matter?

Could I be looking again at a faulty 'camshaft position sensor'. I have already changed it once.
If the cam sensor signal is only used for the starting signal, I suppose I could have purchased a faulty one. Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

I always thought that throtle is closed at start up. It closes when you stop the engine, there is a sound that it makes long after closing the car.