^^^^^Don't know about the UK but Canada & the US have stepped in to basically subsidize pretty well all businesses and business losses. Given the lawyers and accountants on payroll, LR will qualify for everything available and more. I think you best bets are desperate private sales or wait a few months+ until the government subsidizes the sales price as well, to the dealer. Then again, who's going to make sure they pass it on or just sit on it.

Which Magazine has just marked the RR Evoque (2019) as a "Don't Buy" in this months magazine.

It gives historic poor reliability as the reason.

Upon Googling I found this on-line.

They even include my 'beloved' FL2 in the 'Don't Buy' list.

https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/new-and-us...over/brand

Thanks Steve - date edited FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 76k+ miles) (MY2015)

Last edited by IanMetro on 26th May 2020 11:10 pm. Edited 1 time in total

"RR Evoque (1019)"

That must be a VERY early model!  Past: FL2 TD4 HSE Auto
Evoque SD4 Dynamic Lux Auto
Present: Audi A3 S Line.

my sister in law has just bought a brand new Evoque, it was to replace their Volvo XC90 which was 2 years old and had caused them nothing but electronic headaches since they got it, including the autonomous driving extras being massively over sensitive and the electric drivers seat sliding to its maximum forward position whenever it felt like it.

Guess what... the Evoque has just done the same but the seat stuck in the forward position and wouldn't move. LR assist confirmed the electric seat module had failed so swapped it with the passenger one as a temporary measure as the dealers were/are closed.

Its not put them off the Evoque, but has soured it a little for her in particular... however call me cynical but for both cars to do the same

We sold the HSE Freelander and bought a Ewok, nine speed auto with 2.2 engine in next to pauper level (Pure Tech).

It was never going to be a happy situation I suppose, I HATE grey cars, the owners must have given up on life if they can't even be bothered to choose the colour of their car
The Ewok had no toys, the passenger seat wasn't even height adjustable which was a problem for the Mrs as the Ewok has a high waist line and she is 4ft 10". But worst of all it had a fault that meant that it would often bog down part way out of a junction, or set off wheel spinning strait ahead with the front wheels pointing left or right. - dealer couldn't fix it, yes it was dangerous but though.

Point is in these days of social isolation you might be tempted to buy a used car without a test drive, you might be tempted to buy a very expensive car without a warranty. more then ever "Buyer beware" Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Which has certain companies that their products will never be fully endorsed, LR is one, and Dyson is another, there possibly others. I stopped taking Which many years ago as I realised that their reviews on many products was based on either personal or editorial choice, unreliability was nothing to do with you being stranded but whether a bit of trim came off or in the case of Dyson the hose was over stretched and split.Basically if you mistreated any product and broke it then reported it to Which then it was badly made or unreliable. my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

I agree that customer reviews often are based on their own 'Perception' of the product and reliability, rather than actual fact.

Back in the 1980s my company spent a large amount of money putting all customer facing staff on courses to convince us that the perception of our service was more important than the actual delivery of that service.

I do wonder about the wisdom in the need for the complexity that comes with automating more and more. Everything from stability, braking, engine management, seating, mirrors, lights, wipers, etc, etc, has to be (semi?) intelligent.
I am not even sure that every user (driver) even uses or understands all of the functions. (I am still discovering little known features on my TV after owning it for several years)

Sorry to go on, but I have spent my life working with (often brand new) complex systems, and came to realise that the bigger and newer they were, the more hidden problems and unexpected consequences they had.

Reliability depends mainly on the skill of garages to correctly diagnose problems, and not go on gut instinct. This is a problem as Main Dealers are expensive, and independents really need to spend a lot of money on continual (re)training and test equipment.

With regard to the Which Magazine, I still regard that the reviews are still factual, and importantly, more likely to be more accurate than the many 'sponsored' reviews that you read on the internet and in the general press.

Regarding reliability of JLR products, I have been lucky in that I appear to have experienced 2 FL2s that have had little garage intervention and never let me down. In addition in my opinion the FL2 has an ideal driving position and comfort, plus all the power I need to deal with everyday driving.

PS - I have just thought - with regard to perception - JLR coffee and biscuits are far better than those given by my previous car Vauxhall garage. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 76k+ miles) (MY2015)

Quote:

PS - I have just thought - with regard to perception - JLR coffee and biscuits are far better than those given by my previous car Vauxhall garage.

The most expensive coffee shop in town, 2 lattes and 2 danish pastries sir? that will be £45000 please!  Landrover - turning owners into mechanics since 1948

2014 Orkney grey Freelander SD4 GS.
2004 Zambezi silver Discovery 2 Td5 (Gone)
1963 Surf blue Morris Mini Minor Super de Luxe (my little toy)

Andy131 wrote:

the passenger seat wasn't even height adjustable which was a problem for the Mrs as the Ewok has a high waist line and she is 4ft 10".

The seat has the pantograph setup for height adjustment, and the power socket. The pantograph just has a rod where the motor should be. Buy the motor and switch, a couple of hours work, and half an hour wiring and hey presto proper height adjustment as LR intended, all for around £150 if memory serves.

We got rid of the Ewok, bought from Williams Manchester, they couldn't fix it but were happy for use to drive around in it when it was obviously dangerous. In the end Gill actually refused to travel in it anymore. So 6 months after purchase we lost £8k on the sale and bought the first DS. Which after the first teething issues (adblue software) turned out to be a good car, reliable, nice place to be, a fitting replacement for the FL2 - but it was grey, and I really really don't like grey.
So now a red DS with the 240 engine, goes like the clappers when it needs to, fits a full size fridge in the boot when it needs to, Comfy as on the motorway, and happy enough towing a couple of tonnes when I need to. Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Recently speaking to a few locals who I knew had Landrovers but didn't realise the problems that they were having with them.

Cars eventually handed back to dealers as they were unable to sort the electronic faults.

Dealers obviously resell these cars. 🥺

Iain

It's an age old problem of the skills set of the repairers lagging behind that of the vehicles.
When cars with modern electronics came out they were beyond that of the mechanics of the time, who were quite capable of fixing faulty ignition systems, dynamo wiring and iffy lights - thinking Range Rover P38.

Now we have moved one step further and everything is software controlled, so even though the Technicians are familiar with solenoids, earth impedances, and pulsed signals from ABS sensors, the likelihood that they are familiar / competent with software is unlikely. Made more difficult by manufacturers insisting that the vehicle is connected to diagnostics at the factory, only if the dealer has had several attempts. This has two obvious drawbacks, the technicians don't want to feel inadequate to their superiors and are reluctant to admit failure - so blame the driver, even if they admit failure, the diagnostics and therefore repair are out of their hands, so they learn nothing.
It gets worse if the software is at fault, the software guy won't admit he has made a mistake (wants to keep his job), fixes it and blames something else - human nature I'm afraid.

20 years ago we bought a Fiat, nearly new for less than £1k, it had an electrical fault that three dealers couldn't find, sold for spares or repair. It took me several days, and I was working with electrical forklifts at the time, so very familiar with that type of fault. Bargain for me. Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

It has always surprised me that full diagnostic facilities are not freely available by law given that EU regulations now stipulate that servicing doesn't need to be carried out by a franchised dealer. Perhaps there needs to be a court case like the one a few years ago where Ford in the US attempted to stop anyone else making replacement exhaust systems for their cars. They argued that the actual shape was akin to a work of art and therefore could be covered by copyright regulations. Luckily this was thrown out of court. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

IMO the loophole is that the diagnostics software is available to anyone.... so long as they have deep pockets.

GAP IID is the same I believe. Couple of hundred quid for your own personal use but a couple of thousand plus annual subscription fee for updates if you want to work on any car.

Back in the 80's I worked for mainframe computer company and their diagnostics were part of the operating system so accessible by any user. Then they discovered that the customer service division was losing out to 3rd party maintenance companies. I was in sales at the time and we were offered a one off bonus per processor to just re licence our clients software "as a tidying up exercise" to curtail 3rd party access buried in the T&Cs. I had a lot of clients with multi processor systems and I did very well indeed that year. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE