Hi everybody
We had the first winter snow here in Greece two days ago so I had a chance to test my FL2.
The snow was not too much (about 10cm) but FL2 behaved well. DSC would stop the wheels spinning and keep me in a straight line. Engaging TR Snow program made it even better. My only concerne was when I hit the brakes. ABS engages very easily in such conditions and it takes LONG for the car to stop. Switch off DSC has no effect on ABS so my only way around this was to press the brake pedal very very lightly so as not to engage the ABS. Has anyone else experienced this? Am I doing sth wrong or is this normal? I've owned other ABS equipped cars before, but I'm pretty sure they braking distance was much smaller while ABS'ing. One more thing, shouldn't DSC get deactivated when in snow mode? Your advice will be appresiated, as alsways!

I wrote off a Mondeo in 1995 on Snow/Ice.

That was my first car with ABS and when I queried the fact I could not stop I was told ABS is counterproductive in these conditions because the wheels will not lock so no friction = longer time to stop.

I would have thought by now manufacturers would use the ice warning sensor to disable the ABS so you could use the locked wheel/friction to your benefit

I skiddded yesterday at low speed on Ice in a car park and braked but did not detect ABS but not sure. I will try again next time it freezes.

It is a fact that the heavier the vehicle the longer the stopping distance which could explain your point on previous distances if smaller vehicles.

Not much use using the outside temperature gauge as a guide as to whether or not to inhibit ABS. The snowflake symbol that comes up is purely a warning that there is a possiblity of black ice and also it registers the air temperature not the road surface temperature which is the critical one for black ice formation. You would not be a happy bunny if you stamped on the brake and the wheels locked up on an "all weather" chipping surface when you were expecting the ABS to cut in but didn't because the snowflake reckoned that it was icy.......... better to use the TR's snow setting in icy conditions as that remaps the entire engine/ brake and (if an automatic) the gear change points to suit the conditions.
Also a small point here but last weekend when we were on the Offroad jaunt in Scotland, one of the Disco3 guys kept loosing traction despite using the snow setting............................. then he remembered that he had inflated his tyres to 40psi because he had driven the car from Wales full of furniture to his new house the day before. He adjusted the pressures back to the normal light load recommended by LR and hey presto, no more slipping and sliding, so check you tyre pressures are right and not too high if there is snow forecast. How can carbon have a footprint, it has no feet?
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defkalion wrote:

......so my only way around this was to press the brake pedal very very lightly so as not to engage the ABS. Has anyone else experienced this?......

Def.

What you did is correct for snow conditions according to what the bloke at my LR Experience told me,. Brake till the ABS kicks in a release slightly, press a little more to find the fine line between ABS/no ABS


Don't use the technique on your dry hot summer roads though!!!! but sand or wet grass is ok  Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

That cadence braking method allows a "wedge" of snow, mud or sand to build up in front of the wheels that the ABS doesn't allow to form How can carbon have a footprint, it has no feet?
Now driving - RRE Coupe Dynamic Lux Auto with Plus pack, Fuji White, Ebony, SD4 with tow pack
Gone - 2010MY FFRR TDv8 Stornoway and Ivory, Privacy - the pace of a TDv8 RRS, the incomparable grace of a Range Rover
Gone but will be missed- RRS Tdv8 HSE Stornoway Grey with Ebony Leather
Gone (only a little missed) RRS Tdv6 2.7SE Giverny Green/Aspen
Defender 90 County HT in Epsom Green

The is nothing to do with ABS but show the LR testing ground for snow and the FL2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJHQqkF0YnI

I want some snow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ShJZnH3flQ

but muds not good (FFRR but TR systems the same I think ) Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

defkalion wrote:

Hi everybody
We had the first winter snow here in Greece two days ago so I had a chance to test my FL2.
The snow was not too much (about 10cm) but FL2 behaved well. DSC would stop the wheels spinning and keep me in a straight line. Engaging TR Snow program made it even better. My only concerne was when I hit the brakes. ABS engages very easily in such conditions and it takes LONG for the car to stop. Switch off DSC has no effect on ABS so my only way around this was to press the brake pedal very very lightly so as not to engage the ABS. Has anyone else experienced this? Am I doing sth wrong or is this normal? I've owned other ABS equipped cars before, but I'm pretty sure they braking distance was much smaller while ABS'ing. One more thing, shouldn't DSC get deactivated when in snow mode? Your advice will be appresiated, as alsways!

I experienced the same thing as you(i pushed the brakes hard for a test).That happend due to ice that was present (Top of mountain Pedeli) an it is absolutely normal! Besides engaging snow mode on the tr console Id recomend you switch to serial mode and use the gears to slow down the car in similar conditions. That helped me alot when descending from totaly covered with ice roads in the mountain, (i hardly ever hit the brakes) and the car behaved like it was on dry tarmack!.Overal the FL2 had absolutely no problem dealing with snow (5-10cm) and ice! thumbsup:

There is a long long post on this elsewhere debating the value of ABS in snow. Viking from Norway says that you'd be a fool to switch it off and posts a convincing video of Tiff demonstrating with and witout ABS on snow.

I dont know eithe rway but I thought as everyone here had posted against abs in snow I should tell the 'other side of the story'

I live in Surrey so my best chance of getting snow is ram raiding the ski show at Earls court..  '57 GS TD4 in Stornoway. Privacy, Leather, Tred Cills. From ebay etc.. 18" 12 spoke HSE alloys, rear spoiler, clear side repeaters with clear leds, led interior light to replace bulbs, sports exhaust trim, TomTom 720.
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Thank you Scotster. I have monitored this post, and decided to stay out of it. But, I can no longer stay out of it.

One of the most important things about ABS, is that it allows you to STEER out of difficulties. So instead of going straight forward, -smashing into whatever obstacle is in front of you, ABS allows you to steer, and swing around it.

If wheels are blocked, you go STRAIGHT FORWARD, and have no steering at all. No control. ABS gives you control.

I referred the arguments here to a Norwegian forum, that someone argued you could bring up a snow-wall in front of the tyres. The response was disbelief, to put it mildly.

Also that you get better traction with wheels blocked, is wrong. You also get a shorter braking-distance with ABS.

ALLWAYS USE THE ABS! Put the ped'l to the met'l (brake-pedal that is), and let the ABS do the rest.

Driving on ice and snow is something you have in your back-bones. Roules are different than in the summer. You have to work up the right reflexes. F.ex to swing right if your car skids out to the right. Perhaps oposite of what you would do in the summer. a.s.o. It has to be learned.

Well, thats my input to this debate. Now I leave up to you guys to argue the rest. 2008 Freelander 2 HSE TD4 Automatic, Caspian Blue, Alpaca, Moon roof, Exclusive pack.

scotster wrote:

There is a long long post on this elsewhere debating the value of ABS in snow. Viking from Norway says that you'd be a fool to switch it off and posts a convincing video of Tiff demonstrating with and witout ABS on snow.

I dont know eithe rway but I thought as everyone here had posted against abs in snow I should tell the 'other side of the story'

I live in Surrey so my best chance of getting snow is ram raiding the ski show at Earls court..

If disabling ABS was a good idea on snow and ice, I suppose LR would made the TR system dampen the ABS when in snow mode (like it does to the DSC in sand mode) but it doesn't . The thing you should do (as I mentioned earlier) is put winter tires which would make better traction and shorter braking distances on snow/ice.

Since my post started all this , let me just make one thing clear: DSC, TR etc work great in snow conditions. My only observation was that when braking ABS gets engaged quite easily. Compared to previous cars I owned this was not the case. In FL2 the braking distance is much greater - maybe the vehicle weight plays an important role. It is just my opinion that while ABS is active in such conditions, braking distance gets much bigger. I would never have thought of disabling ABS (don't think it's possible anyway). However let me also note that on ice and while ABS is active (and very sensitive) it would be very difficult to turn anyway, unless you have tires with studs. The last snow here was very mild, so I'll be expecting the next big white event and let you know asap (maybe if I get the time will travel a bit higher today just to check).

VIKING wrote:

Thank you Scotster. I have monitored this post, and decided to stay out of it. But, I can no longer stay out of it.

One of the most important things about ABS, is that it allows you to STEER out of difficulties. So instead of going straight forward, -smashing into whatever obstacle is in front of you, ABS allows you to steer, and swing around it.
If wheels are blocked, you go STRAIGHT FORWARD, and have no steering at all. No control. ABS gives you control.

I referred the arguments here to a Norwegian forum, that someone argued you could bring up a snow-wall in front of the tyres. The response was disbelief, to put it mildly.

Also that you get better traction with wheels blocked, is wrong. You also get a shorter braking-distance with ABS.

ALLWAYS USE THE ABS! Put the ped'l to the met'l (brake-pedal that is), and let the ABS do the rest.

Driving on ice and snow is something you have in your back-bones. Roules are different than in the summer. You have to work up the right reflexes. F.ex to swing right if your car skids out to the right. Perhaps oposite of what you would do in the summer. a.s.o. It has to be learned.

Well, thats my input to this debate. Now I leave up to you guys to argue the rest.

I have to disagree with this from experience!

I pushed the peddle to the floor in a Ford Mondeo with ABS in 1995 on snow and Ice and turned the wheel to avoid a Barn on a bend. The car kept going straight with the ABS clicking and I ran straight into the Barn. The only thing that saved me and my wife were the airbags! This was my first car with ABS and airbags and I have made sure every car since then had them

The best way to stop on snow and Ice is using the engine and gears with light braking especialy with 4wd because you can use 4 wheels friction instead of 2.

defkalion wrote:

- maybe the vehicle weight plays an important role.