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freypal



Member Since: 08 Sep 2016
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 55

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Orkney Grey
DPF Problem - Ongoing...

Hi, having posted a few times about an issue with oil dilution, I bit the bullet and bought a GAP IID diagnostic tool to get some live data and also had the fuel pump rebuilt and leak checked.

It awaits to be seen whether the pump was the main cause of the oil dilution (unfortunately the place I took it to didn't do a pre-test on it to see if it was leaking before rebuilding it Rolling Eyes ). I'll monitor it over the next 1k miles or so.

Having now got the diagnostic tool though I was able to log some interesting data on a long journey this weekend and wanted to check some points out... The following was logged over a 3hr10min drive covering ~130miles. Parameters are simply soot mass as inferred from the differential pressure sensor and number of demanded DPF regens;

Click image to enlarge


To me it seems like the DPF is clogging waaaay too quickly. What I'd read online is that an active regen should happen every 300miles or so. Not every 30 miles! In fact on that trace it appears the car spent longer actively regenerating the DPF than it did filling it.

I logged other parameters and I could see an active regen taking place using the exhaust gas temp sensors. When the regen was demanded sensor #3 rose to around 500-600°C. At this point soot mass drops. So it looks like it's able to actively regen just fine. It's just that it's filling up far too quickly and doesn't get any kind of chance to passively regenerate.

The only logged fault code is P2459-65 (68 ) for I believe too many DPF regens in a set period.

Which leads me to think of a few possibilities I'd love some thoughts on...

1. DPF is clogged with perhaps ash? And as such the effective filter area is greatly reduced and so is clogging up much faster than it should.

2. Diff pressure sensor is kaput and the car thinks the DPF is filling up and clogging when it isn't really.

3. Car is running dirty and producing a lot of soot which is clogging the DPF rapidly. Presence of the DPF though means you can't visually see it's running dirty?

Can anyone think of any pointers for things to check? Or other ideas / thoughts on it all? At this point I'm tempted to get the DPF removed and cleaned so at least I know i'm working with a known good filter to fault find from.

Would love to finally get to the bottom of it!

Thanks,

Post #424518 22nd Aug 2022 8:19 pm
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oldgeezer



Member Since: 09 Apr 2011
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 1302

United Kingdom 2013 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Baltic Blue

A simple boost leak can cause too much soot, as can a leaky injector as can a restricted air intake as so could a problematic EGR valve. Jaguar x-type sport gone
Jaguar x-type 2.2d sport one of my best cars ever sadly gone
Freelander 2 GS auto 2008 most unreliable ever ! gladly gone
Freelander 2 GS manual 2013 only time will tell !

Post #424521 22nd Aug 2022 8:57 pm
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I Like Chips



Member Since: 25 Jun 2017
Location: Ascott Under Wychwood
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United Kingdom 2011 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Indus Silver

What Engine oil are you using

Post #424524 22nd Aug 2022 9:26 pm
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I Like Chips



Member Since: 25 Jun 2017
Location: Ascott Under Wychwood
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United Kingdom 2011 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Indus Silver

Have you checked the DPF pressure sensor, the two hoses are known to fail

Post #424525 22nd Aug 2022 9:34 pm
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freypal



Member Since: 08 Sep 2016
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 55

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Orkney Grey

oldgeezer wrote:
A simple boost leak can cause too much soot, as can a leaky injector as can a restricted air intake as so could a problematic EGR valve.


Would any of these manifest as poor performance? As far as I can tell the car has plenty of power, starts fine, no visible smoke. Never had an EML appear and there are no codes relating to the EGR system.

Post #424538 23rd Aug 2022 10:48 am
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freypal



Member Since: 08 Sep 2016
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 55

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Orkney Grey

I Like Chips wrote:
Have you checked the DPF pressure sensor, the two hoses are known to fail


Not sure on the oil sorry, the car has been serviced a few times at different local garages and the issue has persisted so I would assume it's had several different oils in.

On the DPF pressure sensor, is this something easy to check?

Also on the sensor does anyone know what the pressure value should read with the ignition on, engine not running. I would have assumed it would be 0kPa given there is no exhaust flow across the filter but mine reads 1.0kPa on the IID tool. Not sure if there is a permanent offset applied?

Post #424539 23rd Aug 2022 10:52 am
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I Like Chips



Member Since: 25 Jun 2017
Location: Ascott Under Wychwood
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United Kingdom 2011 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Indus Silver

Here is a movie on the sensor. check the pipes, maybe get them off and check for splits

Post #424546 23rd Aug 2022 1:52 pm
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JonMs



Member Since: 25 May 2018
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United Kingdom 2011 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Santorini Black

freypal wrote:
I Like Chips wrote:
Have you checked the DPF pressure sensor, the two hoses are known to fail



Also on the sensor does anyone know what the pressure value should read with the ignition on, engine not running. I would have assumed it would be 0kPa given there is no exhaust flow across the filter but mine reads 1.0kPa on the IID tool. Not sure if there is a permanent offset applied?


I've just gone out and checked, ignition on, engine off, GAP IID BT gives a value of 1.0kPa for DPF pressure on my 2011 SD4. Same as your value. Also, have you seen this video? it might be useful.

Post #424571 24th Aug 2022 9:27 am
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freypal



Member Since: 08 Sep 2016
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 55

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Orkney Grey

I Like Chips wrote:
Here is a movie on the sensor. check the pipes, maybe get them off and check for splits



I'll have a look, thanks!

Post #424606 24th Aug 2022 8:44 pm
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freypal



Member Since: 08 Sep 2016
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 55

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Orkney Grey

JonMs wrote:
freypal wrote:
I Like Chips wrote:
Have you checked the DPF pressure sensor, the two hoses are known to fail



Also on the sensor does anyone know what the pressure value should read with the ignition on, engine not running. I would have assumed it would be 0kPa given there is no exhaust flow across the filter but mine reads 1.0kPa on the IID tool. Not sure if there is a permanent offset applied?


I've just gone out and checked, ignition on, engine off, GAP IID BT gives a value of 1.0kPa for DPF pressure on my 2011 SD4. Same as your value. Also, have you seen this video? it might be useful.


Thanks so much for doing this, very much appreciated and really helpful! The video is very useful also for comparing parameters too so thanks for that too! I'll try and match the conditions to see what values I get.

Starting to lean towards the DPF being fine but the engine running "dirty". Just strange as I'd have expected to notice some kind of performance impact or additional associated fault codes...

Post #424607 24th Aug 2022 8:49 pm
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freypal



Member Since: 08 Sep 2016
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 55

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Orkney Grey

Had a quick look at the throttle body flexi hose which normally seems to go and can't see any obvious splits in it. Flexi hoses attaching to the DPF pressure sensor also look good....

Are there any possible/likely things to look for which could cause excessive soot generation but also wouldn't manifest as reduced performance or log additional fault codes? Seems odd the car runs fine with plenty of power etc.

Post #424646 26th Aug 2022 9:52 am
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JonMs



Member Since: 25 May 2018
Location: Ilkley
Posts: 101

United Kingdom 2011 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Santorini Black

Just to say, in addition to the DPS sensor pipes splitting etc, the DPF sensor itself can fail. Mine failed just after I bought the car and was difficult to diagnose. The only symptoms were the car going into Reduced Performance mode intermittently . There were no fault codes. It was fixed under warranty so unfortunately I don't know exactly how the mechanic diagnosed the problem, only that he used live data and the voltages were out.

Post #424647 26th Aug 2022 10:36 am
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freypal



Member Since: 08 Sep 2016
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 55

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Orkney Grey

JonMs wrote:
freypal wrote:
I Like Chips wrote:
Have you checked the DPF pressure sensor, the two hoses are known to fail



Also on the sensor does anyone know what the pressure value should read with the ignition on, engine not running. I would have assumed it would be 0kPa given there is no exhaust flow across the filter but mine reads 1.0kPa on the IID tool. Not sure if there is a permanent offset applied?


I've just gone out and checked, ignition on, engine off, GAP IID BT gives a value of 1.0kPa for DPF pressure on my 2011 SD4. Same as your value. Also, have you seen this video? it might be useful.


Hi again, sorry but in relation to your latest reply on faulty pressure sensor...

Could I possibly trouble you for another check when you have time? With the ignition on and the engine off, is your pressure sensor voltage signal steady? I'd assume it should be rock steady as there is no exhaust flow so no possible change in pressure. Mine is jumping between two values though. I know they are very small changes but I wonder if it indicates the sensor might be having problems...;

Click image to enlarge


With the engine idling the value seems to oscillate a lot more but i could probably believe that. although it would be interesting to see if it's normal! The youtube videos you kindly linked seem to show a much more stable value than i have too...;

Click image to enlarge

Post #424675 27th Aug 2022 1:44 pm
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JonMs



Member Since: 25 May 2018
Location: Ilkley
Posts: 101

United Kingdom 2011 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Santorini Black

On my car the values with ignition on but engine off are very similar to your graph in that the voltage oscillates between two values and is very stable. The only difference is that my values are higher, between 0.493 and 0.498. I don't know if this is significant or not.

At idle my graph is similar to yours in that there is much more variability in the values. They range from 0.488 to 0.547

I'm not sure if this helps you or not! my gut feel is that your DPF sensor is fine because it's behavior is similar to mine. The values may be slightly different but then my DPF is likely to me more or less full than yours.

Post #424757 29th Aug 2022 3:13 pm
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AJ918



Member Since: 26 Mar 2018
Location: North West
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United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Santorini Black

Hi having read the above I would ask the following basic questions in order to try and understand the basic issue.

* Have you owned the vehicle from new if not how long
* Current mileage
* Full service history with LR dealer or Independent garage
* Type of engine oil used (should be C1 5w-30 spec such as Castrol Edge Professional, and must meet Ford WSS-M2C934-B, ACEA C1 and latest spec ST JLR 03.5005) these are low ash engine oils that are required for the Freelander 2 not a generic one that most non franchised garages might use.
* Has the engine been remapped or the EGR blanked etc;
* How is the vehicle driven, Motorway, Rural, Urban and average journey time and number of miles covered.
* Average road speed/engine RPM
* Do you use the vehicle for towing.

Post #424759 29th Aug 2022 4:44 pm
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