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Home > General > Jaguar Land Rover takes £3.1bn hit as demand stalls. FT
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dorsetfreelander



Member Since: 20 Jul 2013
Location: Dorset
Posts: 4336

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 XS Auto Loire Blue

I think that JLR have a massive problem. It's expected that the low emission zone in central London will be extended to the M25 eventually and with other cities moving that way it will soon be difficult to own a diesel in an urban area. JLR's problem is that they haven't got a sensible petrol strategy. A DS with petrol engine has VED of £450/year for a start and eye watering prices above the diesel equivalent (didn't it used to be the other way round?). For a variety of reasons (oil dilution, balance shafts etc) I won't be buying another diesel and the few petrol DS's on approved used seem to be very low mileage demonstrators up i near or in the £40k bracket and I am not prepared to pay over the odds. In a year I might be in a Volvo as they seem to be better positioned than JLR. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

Post #370303 16th Apr 2019 2:38 pm
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chicken george



Member Since: 05 Dec 2007
Location: N. Yorks
Posts: 13283

United Kingdom 2008 Freelander 2 TD4 XS Manual Santorini Black

Petrol DS is almost same price as diesel auto, main difference is it has to be auto and 4wd. At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race

Post #370316 16th Apr 2019 4:21 pm
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Boxbrownie



Member Since: 17 Mar 2019
Location: Looe
Posts: 2053

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 i6 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

JLR have a massive push towards Hybrid coming (some already here obviously), they are a “little behind the curve” but then when have they not been? Rolling Eyes

JLR is a bit Titanic’al, (takes a while to change direction).........let’s just hope this one is unsinkable! Regards

David

Lovely i6 has now gone, but not me......

Please let me know if anything in my post offends you, as I may wish to offend you again......

Post #370317 16th Apr 2019 4:41 pm
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MartynB



Member Since: 08 Aug 2011
Location: Currently Rootless !
Posts: 1759

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Zermatt Silver

dorsetfreelander wrote:
I think that JLR have a massive problem. It's expected that the low emission zone in central London will be extended to the M25 eventually and with other cities moving that way it will soon be difficult to own a diesel in an urban area. JLR's problem is that they haven't got a sensible petrol strategy. A DS with petrol engine has VED of £450/year for a start and eye watering prices above the diesel equivalent (didn't it used to be the other way round?). For a variety of reasons (oil dilution, balance shafts etc) I won't be buying another diesel and the few petrol DS's on approved used seem to be very low mileage demonstrators up i near or in the £40k bracket and I am not prepared to pay over the odds. In a year I might be in a Volvo as they seem to be better positioned than JLR.


Undoubtedly this nonsense of punitive VED on vehicles costing over £40,000 is flawed , and has played its part in damaging JLR sales . As the extra VED is applied to the vehicle for its first 6 years of life , it’s simply nothing more than a wealth tax . It’s time the whole system was dropped and replaced by a premium on fuel . That way the more you drive , the more lead footed you are , and the less efficient car you drive , you are paying pro rate to your pollution. 2009 GS Auto Zermatt Silver - Sold June 21 after 10 years of ownership

2016 Subaru Outback SE 2.0 diesel SE Premium Lineartronic Sold 2024 after 8 years and 80k miles . Best Car I ever owned !

2023 Toyota Hilux invincible X 2.8 Auto .

Post #370332 16th Apr 2019 6:45 pm
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Boxbrownie



Member Since: 17 Mar 2019
Location: Looe
Posts: 2053

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 i6 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

Above......stupid idea.......what government would ever apply a fair and logical tax regime Rolling with laughter


The new VED is crazy, even our BMW i3 if we went out tomorrow and bought new (exactly the same) would cost us something like £320 per year as opposed to the £0 we pay now.......great encouragement for going EV Rolling Eyes Regards

David

Lovely i6 has now gone, but not me......

Please let me know if anything in my post offends you, as I may wish to offend you again......

Post #370337 16th Apr 2019 7:28 pm
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Tigger



Member Since: 30 Mar 2011
Location: L15KRD
Posts: 2555

United Kingdom 

Putting all of the tax on fuel has been discussed for decades and there are some very good good reasons for keeping a separate standing change (road tax) and an ongoing charge for use (fuel tax).

Post #370340 16th Apr 2019 8:16 pm
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IanMetro



Member Since: 11 Sep 2017
Location: Somerset BS21
Posts: 2747

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 Metropolis LE Auto Fuji White

Boxbrownie wrote:

The new VED is crazy, even our BMW i3 if we went out tomorrow and bought new (exactly the same) would cost us something like £320 per year as opposed to the £0 we pay now.......great encouragement for going EV Rolling Eyes


I would be interested to know what your impressions are about running a proper electric car like the BMW i3.

How does it compare with running a 'normal' engine car? FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 74k+ miles) (MY2015)

Post #370354 16th Apr 2019 10:16 pm
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dorsetfreelander



Member Since: 20 Jul 2013
Location: Dorset
Posts: 4336

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 XS Auto Loire Blue

chicken george wrote:
Petrol DS is almost same price as diesel auto, main difference is it has to be auto and 4wd.


Well, when I asked a LR salesman he said that it was £3-4k extra for a petrol DS. I didn't bother to check the figures. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

Post #370356 16th Apr 2019 10:41 pm
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Boxbrownie



Member Since: 17 Mar 2019
Location: Looe
Posts: 2053

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 i6 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

IanMetro wrote:
Boxbrownie wrote:

The new VED is crazy, even our BMW i3 if we went out tomorrow and bought new (exactly the same) would cost us something like £320 per year as opposed to the £0 we pay now.......great encouragement for going EV Rolling Eyes


I would be interested to know what your impressions are about running a proper electric car like the BMW i3.

How does it compare with running a 'normal' engine car?


Absolutely lovely......although ours is the REX we have only ever used the REX on one very long late night journey we didn’t want to stop on, we only usually drive locally 5-30 miles 90% of the time and didn’t even bother with a home charging point, still using the supplied “granny charger” into a domestic socket (but it is plugged into a single supplied circuit from our annexe, which makes it nice and reliably safe with no other loads on the same circuit) for the past two years.

Some people say “ah but it takes hours to recharge, to which I reply it only really takes about 8 seconds......4 seconds to plug in arriving home and the same unplugging when we leave for somewhere Laughing the rest of the time we are in doors doing other things, not waiting for a charge Wink .

The i3 is typical BMW interior quality, very well screwed together and feels solid and not being the usual BMW wrap around cabin (the i3 is very open and airy inside) is a lovely relaxing environment....we love it.

Not sure what we will replace it with eventually..... Regards

David

Lovely i6 has now gone, but not me......

Please let me know if anything in my post offends you, as I may wish to offend you again......

Post #370371 17th Apr 2019 8:58 am
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Boxbrownie



Member Since: 17 Mar 2019
Location: Looe
Posts: 2053

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 i6 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

Oh yes, sorry as compared to an ICE vehicle?

Amazingly better......almost silent powertrain, although with the drivers window open upon rapid accel you get a lovely electric whine/hum very 22nd century Laughing

And the relentless torque from standstill which doesn’t start to tail off until high speed (60+mph) is something that never ceases to amuse.

And I never miss the feeling of driving straight past the petrol station wondering what to latest tat is they are selling at the till Rolling with laughter Regards

David

Lovely i6 has now gone, but not me......

Please let me know if anything in my post offends you, as I may wish to offend you again......

Post #370372 17th Apr 2019 9:03 am
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dorsetfreelander



Member Since: 20 Jul 2013
Location: Dorset
Posts: 4336

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 XS Auto Loire Blue

I am sure that full EV will happen but for most people at the moment it seems to be either for a regular short commute or short trips or a specific A-B drive where you plan your stops. I was talking about this to a sales guy that I know and he thinks that it will be a long time before it is viable for his use. He travels up to 250 miles a day dropping in to see clients in his area with no real opportunity to charge up and difficult to ask a potential customer if "I can steal some of you electricity" while you talk to them. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

Post #370394 17th Apr 2019 1:22 pm
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Boxbrownie



Member Since: 17 Mar 2019
Location: Looe
Posts: 2053

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 i6 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

He cannot be giving each client much time........but for some users he is correct, EVs still have limitations.

Having said that he is on the cusp of a Tesla being just about fine for his use, it won’t be long before the range he requires is well within the capabilities of Some EVs.

He is better of using a tax cheating hybrid for now, although I would be surprised if he is “on the ball” he doesn’t use one already. Regards

David

Lovely i6 has now gone, but not me......

Please let me know if anything in my post offends you, as I may wish to offend you again......

Post #370395 17th Apr 2019 1:32 pm
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Lightwater



Member Since: 21 Aug 2014
Location: Sydney Northern Beaches
Posts: 4704

Ukraine 2013 Freelander 2 2.0T SE Auto Fuji White

dorsetfreelander wrote:
I am sure that full EV will happen but for most people at the moment it seems to be either for a regular short commute or short trips or a specific A-B drive where you plan your stops. I was talking about this to a sales guy that I know and he thinks that it will be a long time before it is viable for his use. He travels up to 250 miles a day dropping in to see clients in his area with no real opportunity to charge up and difficult to ask a potential customer if "I can steal some of you electricity" while you talk to them.

Occupational health & safety, you need to have breaks, then charge the car. So his argument is BS!

England has more than enough charging points.
https://www.plugshare.com
Click image to enlarge

People can even drive around Australia.
https://www.teslaowners.org.au/round-aust-list
We could have easily done the Nullabor, Eyre Highway if we had an electric car.
Click image to enlarge

Gibb River Road is not viable unless you take a generator or speak to the numerous Grey Nomads who have huge solar setups with air conditioning & induction cooking. Their solar setups are way too small but I am sure they all would be willing to help simply from the aspect to give it a go! A bit of 240 volts from here & there! They are a really helpful bunch out there! If someone needed my tiny solar setup to charge something I would absolutely have no issues, up to 11.3 amps out of 120 watts!
Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

Our block of units did an electrical upgrade for a number of reasons including asbestos removal. We were one of the three out of four garage owners who installed 3 phase to the garage for an electric car. None of us have an electric car yet but we are getting ready! Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

Post #370418 17th Apr 2019 9:22 pm
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chicken george



Member Since: 05 Dec 2007
Location: N. Yorks
Posts: 13283

United Kingdom 2008 Freelander 2 TD4 XS Manual Santorini Black

Rolling with laughter. More than enough in uk,, those that are around get ice cars parked in them for starters, the uk is full.

Fiist fights have occurred when hybrid drivers charge at points when full electrics are waiting their turn

The future is bright but its in the future, after brexit maybe At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race

Post #370422 18th Apr 2019 2:41 am
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dorsetfreelander



Member Since: 20 Jul 2013
Location: Dorset
Posts: 4336

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 XS Auto Loire Blue

Lightwater wrote:
dorsetfreelander wrote:
I am sure that full EV will happen but for most people at the moment it seems to be either for a regular short commute or short trips or a specific A-B drive where you plan your stops. I was talking about this to a sales guy that I know and he thinks that it will be a long time before it is viable for his use. He travels up to 250 miles a day dropping in to see clients in his area with no real opportunity to charge up and difficult to ask a potential customer if "I can steal some of you electricity" while you talk to them.

Occupational health & safety, you need to have breaks, then charge the car. So his argument is BS!



Not so sure about that, he travels around a rural area visiting farms and takes his lunch to eat in a lay by somewhere. Your assumption seems to be that he can stop at a motorway service area or similar. As I said I am sure that it will eventually not be a problem but we are experiencing an issue probably not seen since the 1920's where you had to work out where you could buy petrol on a long journey. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

Post #370490 19th Apr 2019 8:58 am
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