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MARATHON



Member Since: 10 Sep 2016
Location: Derby
Posts: 11

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Zermatt Silver
Smart Meter EMI causing starting problems

A strange one this! Been parking my FL2 by the side of the house close to wall. In October 2016 had starting problem and car had to be towed to garage. The problem was diagnosed as fractured positive lead on battery. However this problem where pressing the Start button made the display corrupt accompanied by flashing dash lights has intermittently returned. After reading this forum I suspected poor earthing so I was to fit an auxiliary earth strap.
Then I remembered a few years back I had similar problems with a 300TDi Discovery whose electronics went dead near mobile masts on a few occasions. Once I had a TD5 Disco go dead when I was parked next to a mobile crane being worked with a remote controller. I asked the operator to switch off and the TD5 started immediately.
So back to the FL2 and the electronics only failed when parked by the side of the house. Then it clicked, the smart meters are fitted on the other side of the wall level with the engine bay. There has been reports of Stanner stair lifts being affected by smart meter installation so I checked the date of my installation and it was the previous week to my first electronics failure.
Any comments most appreciated.

Post #351298 11th Jun 2018 8:36 pm
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Past master



Member Since: 30 Jun 2010
Location: Isle of Ely
Posts: 2710

United Kingdom 

Wouldn't surprise me. I've had a problem in the past with a TD5 which I think was down to someone's house alarm, and others have had similar experiences. Not sure how the smart meters communicate, but I wonder if they have been fitted correctly. The guy who fitted mine was not a qualified electrician - he had been trained to fit the meters and that's it. Ex AA Series III LWB Safari - Gone
300TDi Disco (bought new - terrible car) sent back after 18 months
Freelander 1 Estate - leased, given back at end of lease
200TDi Disco (bought from a mate with 100,000 on the clock) - Gone
Disco 2 TD5 - sold and exported to France
FR2 TD4 GS - Gone
FR2 SD4 HSE - Now changed for a DS
New model ex-demo Evoque S 180 in white
Unable to order a new DS, so gave up. Now have a Volvo S90 Recharge.

Post #351309 11th Jun 2018 10:19 pm
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RogB



Member Since: 16 Dec 2014
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 3868

England 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Lux Auto Santorini Black

I Have smart meters installed and run by Scottish Power.
The smart meters are connected by their own wireless signal to the in house display and then connected to the supplier via an O2 simcard in the electric meter. The gas meter is connected to the electric meter via the inbuilt wireless module.

I don't know if every supplier has the same set up as Scottish Power but I would imagine they do.

so add this new wireless frequency the already crowded spectrum and your house is surrounded in a cloud of electronic haze so it wouldn't surprise me if at least one of those frequencies is close enough to vehicle electronics to cause interference.

Post #351329 12th Jun 2018 7:47 am
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MARATHON



Member Since: 10 Sep 2016
Location: Derby
Posts: 11

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Zermatt Silver

My supplier is also Scottish Power so I will contact them to make them aware of the issue and anything they could do to remedy the situation.

Post #351332 12th Jun 2018 8:03 am
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dorsetfreelander



Member Since: 20 Jul 2013
Location: Dorset
Posts: 4341

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 XS Auto Loire Blue

Has anyone with economy 7 got a smart meter? I called SSE about one and they said it's not possible. I asked why not but they didn't know. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

Post #351347 12th Jun 2018 9:51 am
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T4



Member Since: 05 Mar 2018
Location: Essex, Gower & anywhere inbetween
Posts: 141

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Tambora Flame

It is a know issue that you can drain the battery if you are using your phone on Bluetooth, switch of the engine during the call and then put you phone down in the vicinity of the vehicle. Apparently the car tries to stay connected to the phone.

This being the case I can see every possibility that other transmissions may do the same thing. Domestic transmitters and receivers use a very small frequency band relying on digital pairing to work out which transmissions relate to it. Noting that the technology in FL2 is probably 12 years old now, if not more, it isn't going to have the same sophistication as more modern transmitters.

Post #351352 12th Jun 2018 11:32 am
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Vanny



Member Since: 06 Dec 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 437

United Kingdom 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 XS Auto Santorini Black

dorsetfreelander wrote:
Has anyone with economy 7 got a smart meter? I called SSE about one and they said it's not possible. I asked why not but they didn't know.


I've had a smart meter with my economy 7 supply for 3 years, no problems. It was installed by EON.

Closer to topic, my smart meter communicates with the screen using ZigBee protocol on 433Mhz. It's a IEEE 802.15.4 based protocol which has specific limits on transmission power, infact all domestic consumer electronics is limited in output power. I just can't believe that a smart meter could have such an obvious impact on car electronics . . . assuming it's not faulty!

It's pretty easy to scan for wireless signals in domestic bands, you could get a cheap USB dvb-t software defined radio adapter for a laptop and some open source software and measure the signal power your self.

Is it the only electrical thing on that side of the house? Do you have any old style mains adapters, battery chargers, alarms, old boiler or anything with a large step down transformer? Looking for coils and high voltage. Maybe an old strip light with failing condenser?

Post #351375 12th Jun 2018 7:46 pm
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I Like Chips



Member Since: 25 Jun 2017
Location: Ascott Under Wychwood
Posts: 1439

United Kingdom 2011 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Indus Silver

I remember the advent of the first after market electronic ignition systems, when was it mid /late 80s.

There were variious articles in the papers and magazines at the time warning that the systems could cut out when driving under electric pylons

Post #351380 12th Jun 2018 8:16 pm
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IanMetro



Member Since: 11 Sep 2017
Location: Somerset BS21
Posts: 2768

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 Metropolis LE Auto Fuji White

Vanny wrote:
dorsetfreelander wrote:
Has anyone with economy 7 got a smart meter? I called SSE about one and they said it's not possible. I asked why not but they didn't know.


I've had a smart meter with my economy 7 supply for 3 years, no problems. It was installed by EON.

Closer to topic, my smart meter communicates with the screen using ZigBee protocol on 433Mhz. It's a IEEE 802.15.4 based protocol which has specific limits on transmission power, infact all domestic consumer electronics is limited in output power. I just can't believe that a smart meter could have such an obvious impact on car electronics . . . assuming it's not faulty!

It's pretty easy to scan for wireless signals in domestic bands, you could get a cheap USB dvb-t software defined radio adapter for a laptop and some open source software and measure the signal power your self.

Is it the only electrical thing on that side of the house? Do you have any old style mains adapters, battery chargers, alarms, old boiler or anything with a large step down transformer? Looking for coils and high voltage. Maybe an old strip light with failing condenser?


https://www.ukpartsdirect.com/tpms-product...ensor.html

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Complete-Remote-K...1256189493

433Mhz is the Key and TPMS frequency on FL2. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 76k+ miles) (MY2015)

Post #351389 12th Jun 2018 10:07 pm
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MARATHON



Member Since: 10 Sep 2016
Location: Derby
Posts: 11

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Zermatt Silver

Thanks guys for your informed replies. I have contacted Scottish Power and their technical team will contact me in the next few days to discuss the problem. In the meantime I am parking the car about 3 meters away from the smart meter for a trial. Will post again if any more news of interest.
The only other source of interference could be the broadband router and this is now nearer the car so time will tell. If I am lucky they may visit and test the installation for faults.

Post #351393 12th Jun 2018 10:41 pm
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dorsetfreelander



Member Since: 20 Jul 2013
Location: Dorset
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United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 XS Auto Loire Blue

About 15 years ago I was once at a shooting event near Bovington Army Camp in Dorset. At the end of the day about half a dozen people had trouble getting their cars started. Then one by one they managed to get them going. The last one was a LR Discovery which was owned by the owner of the shooting ground and refused to start so he left it in the car park and got a lift home. The next morning it started OK. The likely explanation was that the army was playing around with something, it never happened again. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

Post #351408 13th Jun 2018 8:55 am
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IanMetro



Member Since: 11 Sep 2017
Location: Somerset BS21
Posts: 2768

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 Metropolis LE Auto Fuji White

There are warnings of Land Rover systems interfering with other devices.

Any person fitted with an implanted medical device should make sure that the device is kept at a distance of at least 9 in (22 cm) away from any transmitter mounted in the vehicle. This is to avoid any possibility of interference between the system and the device.
Interference may cause the implanted medical device to malfunction, causing serious injury or death

http://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/documen...c/G1803693

So there must be problems the other way round, with other devices interfering with starting, etc.

Think of 433Mhz as a road that you must fit in all the radio traffic and avoid collisions (of data). FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 76k+ miles) (MY2015)

Post #351412 13th Jun 2018 9:14 am
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MARATHON



Member Since: 10 Sep 2016
Location: Derby
Posts: 11

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Zermatt Silver

Scottish Power were very understanding and offered standard replacement credit meters immediately. These will be fitted within the next two weeks so will report on progress later. In the meantime fitting additional earth strap as recommended by this community.

Post #351486 14th Jun 2018 12:17 pm
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RogB



Member Since: 16 Dec 2014
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 3868

England 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Lux Auto Santorini Black

so rather than investigate if the smart meters really are causing problems they just offer to remove them altogether ?

meaning in 2020 when the government make it law to have smart meters, you will have to pay out your own pocket to have them installed.

Post #351491 14th Jun 2018 12:43 pm
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Andy131



Member Since: 10 Dec 2009
Location: Manchester
Posts: 2161

United Kingdom 

Didn't know they were becoming mandatory Evil or Very Mad

I have refused EON (and Scottish Power previously) on their "kind offer" to fit a smart meter.
My sister had one fitted, all was fine until she wanted to change supplier, the new supplier then had to get the readings from the old supplier who owned the kit, who were less than helpful. Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Post #351493 14th Jun 2018 1:01 pm
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