Hi,

After moving to a village last year, and since then, being trapped by snow 4 times (mainly ground clearance being the issue), I am thinking of getting a 4x4 (first time)! I have to admit, it is a bit of an excuse, as I have always fancied one to do a bit of green laning, so am looking at Freelanders, Disco 3s and Subaru Foresters (outside choice).

To put it into context, I have another (very nice) Skoda Superb as my main car, so this would very much be a second "project car" for when the weather stuffs us and for fun at weekends. As such, I can't really afford more than £5k for the vehicle.

I am trying to decide between a Disco 3 and FL2, both seem available within budget at 100-150k miles. Originally I fancied a Disco 3 for better off road abilities, but the running costs (higher tax, higher insurance) etc are putting me off, for a car that will probably only do 3k miles a year (guess).

So, reason I am here is to try and pursuade myself that I won't regret an FL2 over a Disco .

Benefits (for me) seems to be:
- Lower overall costs
- Seem cheaper, which I guess makes sense
- Still have Terrain Response (as long as you get the right spec)
- Will require a lesser re-mortgage of the house at each petrol station
- I prefer the look

My main concerns are:
- Lower ground clearance of the FL (and lack of air suspension)
- Less capable offroad (aside from ground clearance?)
- Smaller boot (we do a lot of kayaking, mountain biking, hiking... so may take this up to Scotland for trips)
- Less aftermarket accessories / components for when things break (or you want to play )

Any thoughts on those concerns? Have people felt limited by ground clearance? I read something that FL2s can do most of what a Defender can do, just slower. Is that really true? It seems unlikely to me, but I'm no expert.

Also a few other things I would be interested in peoples thoughts on:
- On moneysupermarket, I have quotes of about £250/yr for insurance, which doesn't seem unreasonable (£370 for my Superb). Is it worth the effort of doing quotes with specialist insurers?
- Having never really done "mods" to cars (e.g. offroad tyres / wheels), is it better to go with a specialist insurer?
- Looks like you can get "off road" insurance - is this generally a lot more expensive?
- Anything to look out for when looking at FL2, above the standard of any car? I have hear of rear diff issues - how can you tell?
- I'd prefer a manual - is this a bad idea for any reason (off roading?)
- I have been trying to work out how much a transfer box / rear diff would cost at a specialist garage, if they go... any ideas?
- On the outside option... thoughts on the Forester? Less cool, and less well "supported" in the UK, but probably more reliable and seem to have quite a following stateside.

Sorry that was a long post, but thank you!

Chris

I love my FL2, but if I was only doing 3K a year and only having the car for recreational use, I think I’d go with the D3. Boot space in the FL2 is really limited for trips. And more fun can be had with a low-range option for off-road. 2005 D3 2.7 Auto
Previously:
2010 MY FL2 TD4e GS - Now gone at 199,500 miles, about 135,000 of them mine.
‘93 Defender 110 200TDi CSW
‘87 Defender 90 4 cyl Petrol
‘83 110 CSW V8 - best ever!
Range Rover 2-door V8 (not sure of year - 4-speed box and vacuum diff switch)
Series III SWB Diesel

Avoid the D3 if your budget is £5k - it'll be a money pit!

If you want a vehicle that is happy to sit around for months not being used but will start when you need it to & won't throw any faults up due to low battery etc. spend your money on a 300 Tdi Defender

There's also the probability of cheaper insurance & it will go anywhere!

Oh, & before anyone asks, I have a FL2, a D4 & a Td5 Defender - before them a FL1, D2 Td5 & for 16 years a 300 Tdi 90

Chip in the Skoda and go for a later decent 4wd and forget about green lanes. Boring but sensible. FL2 MY10 TD4 GS traded in at 2 years
FL2 MY13 TD4 GS Current

On my recent trip around South Australia I spoke to someone who had done 1.1m kilometres in their D3 HSE, they had the transmission replaced at 600k, & probably coming up for a second replacement. It has been through water up to the windows. The car is a completely different beast to the Freelander, but whichever car you get budget in repairs. You will also have all the air suspension on the D3 which will cost more, but it gives you more ground clearance. Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

Remember that for £5K that is the scrap value for a working D3 or FL2 if you break it yourself and sell for spares. TDi 300's were built under BMW ownership, they were rust buckets due to leaking windows and sun roofs, the alloy rotted due to scrimping on parts that separated alloy from steel components in the body, there are much better 1989 TDi200's than TDi 300's built some 5 or more years later, worst 300 years are 96-to 98. my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

chrisps wrote:

On the outside option... thoughts on the Forester?

I ran a Forester for 6 years - 2.5xte auto and had very little problem with it. Should be able to get one within your budget, have a look at subaruforester.org; certainly quicker than the Freelander, only downside would be the ground clearance

On ground clearance , the Freelander 2 looks a high car , but the actual clearance , under the chassis is around 200 .mm. Having said that 200 mm is plenty . The skill of driving in snow is knowing when not to In real life a £5K Disco is a money pit . If you really want to drive off-road , buy a Defender but be prepared a ) to spend every weekend with a spanner in your hand , b) to get it stolen .

I’m probably one of the few people on here who can tell you what real life Subaru ownership is like . In the last weeks foul weather I’ve driven the Outback with complete confidence, looks low but has exactly the same ground clearance as the FL2 .. Generally speaking you will find independent LR specialists and independent Suby specialists are the same price on labour (I use a Suby main dealer I think they charge £85/hr including VAT .
The thing that differentiates the Subaru system is it is a full time synchronised all wheel drive system. It does not have a Haldex coupling to turn front wheel drive bias into more 4x4 as the Freelander does. Neither Fl2 or Forester is going to climb rocks, but either will get you out of a snowy lane . Neither has any “ low box “ or “ Diff Locks “ Your issue is not a choice of Brand , it’s a choice of the best example £5000 will buy. Either will cost a lot of cash if the engine or transmission goes bang .

If it was me I’d trade the Superb and chip the 5 grand in , Lots of newer cars that would do the job , Disco Sport , Tiguan , Kodiak, Octavia Scout , All Road , Forester , Outback , X60 , Jeep , all could be har with the Superb’s bells and whistles .
M 2009 GS Auto Zermatt Silver - Sold June 21 after 10 years of ownership

2016 Subaru Outback SE 2.0 diesel SE Premium Lineartronic Sold 2024 after 8 years and 80k miles . Best Car I ever owned !

2023 Toyota Hilux invincible X 2.8 Auto .

Can’t understand why anyone should ever get stuck in a snow in these Martyn’s  FL2 MY10 TD4 GS traded in at 2 years
FL2 MY13 TD4 GS Current

Agree a £5k 4x4, especially a D3 is going to be a money pit which is fine if you are happy to fix it yourself and enjoy the challenge. If not it might lead to you falling out of love with it very quickly.
Is the option of replacing the Superb for a newer 4x4 a realistic proposition? Buy a late model Fl2 and enjoy the best of both worlds? Only sacrifice might be on boot space.
Skoda Scout 4x4? Landrover - turning owners into mechanics since 1948

2014 Orkney grey Freelander SD4 GS.
2004 Zambezi silver Discovery 2 Td5 (Gone)
1963 Surf blue Morris Mini Minor Super de Luxe (my little toy)

for that budget and annual mileage have you thought about a late model 53/04 plate D2 TD5 (I prefer auto) ??

as capable as a defender, but more comfortable. Higher spec later models have plenty of toys but no terrain response however they did reconnect the low range while keep the traction control which can be much more beneficial. There is plenty of ground clearance, plenty of spares, plenty of accessories and they are a whole let less complicated than a D3 or FL2.

You may need to do some initial remedial work if you get one such as power steering box or sunroof drains for example, as well as full fluid changes etc but that will still keep you under budget potentially.

MartynB wrote:

If it was me I’d trade the Superb and chip the 5 grand in , Lots of newer cars that would do the job , Disco Sport , Tiguan , Kodiak, Octavia Scout , All Road , Forester , Outback , X60 , Jeep , all could be har with the Superb’s bells and whistles .
M

Big problem with D2s now is finding one that has a good chassis... They rust like hell in the rear end! Also look out for water ingress in the front head lining, it might be the sunroof but on mine it was a panel joint rusting through & the only way to stop it was to remove the windscreen to get to it...

That said if you can find a good one then a good option but keep the battery on a ctek conditioner if it's sitting around for months on end & if you want to green lane make sure it has the diff lock, pre face lift pretty much all do but it was an option on all but the run out face lift cars.

My 300 Tdi was 1995 & apart from a water leak through the seals for the alpine lights it was OK, rear cross member needed replacing but that's a given, bulkhead was absolutely sound when I sold it. No sensors to break, old school mechanics you can tackle at home & there are plenty of 'layers' you can add for security.

Last edited by VVS210 on 6th Mar 2018 11:45 am. Edited 1 time in total

I guess we need chrisps to come back and tell us more about himself/herself as the best solution very much depends on the type of user.

I’ve noticed on other forums like this that as the vehicles age, there is a gradual shift from the always-running-a-relatively-new-car type of owner across to the I’m-going-to-keep-this-one-running-forever approach. Neither is right or wrong, but the approach to problems is often different. (Back as a student, I worked with a farmer’s son who just couldn’t understand why I replaced the wing-mounted mirrors on my ageing mini with door ones - “just buy a new car with modern mirrors!”).

If the OP is used to running newish cars, then I am with MartynB, trade the Superb in for something that does both jobs. If he/she is used to the pleasures of old cars, then go down the 200tdi 90/110 or D2 route. Anything in-between might be a compromise that never quite works. 2005 D3 2.7 Auto
Previously:
2010 MY FL2 TD4e GS - Now gone at 199,500 miles, about 135,000 of them mine.
‘93 Defender 110 200TDi CSW
‘87 Defender 90 4 cyl Petrol
‘83 110 CSW V8 - best ever!
Range Rover 2-door V8 (not sure of year - 4-speed box and vacuum diff switch)
Series III SWB Diesel