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MRRover75



Member Since: 13 Jan 2017
Location: Sandnes
Posts: 316

Norway 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Manual Tambora Flame

de1979 wrote:
Seen a few of the nose bearings now and they all look identical. Shame it's never been nailed down as to a cause. Not to mix up threads but this is what worries me about the Haldex "dink" noise I and many others get when setting off. Land Rover blame the bearing failure on the way the Haldex applies torque from standstill and it certainly sounds and feels like there's some jolting going on. Love to know if the two things are related. Bell on the other hand say the bearing is too small, and no-one seems to really blame the oil.

Very interested in what you have to say about the different oil Paul Gill. Would you say this is the UK equivalent?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00307...QVK90UAMQF
I wonder if putting some 80w90 back in would make your noise return?

Spec says "where extreme pressures and shock loading are expected" - seems to fit with what Land Rover say!


Hi,
Yes, as already discussed in several threads, we can conclude that the factory fitted bearing is to small for the job. Sad that it took LR so long time before they replaced it with a bigger bearing from the factory (2015 Evoque?). Bell Engineering is the only one I know of who does this the correct way by modifying the diff to accept a larger bearing. In my case, I just have to stick with the truth that my diff will still have its weakness after the rebuild. The only thing I can do is to fit the best bearing I can find and use the best oil available. As I have a haldex gen.3, I am not able to update its software either. On the other hand, I hope the diff will last a reasonable amount of time before a potential failure. This is what I am planning to find out and a part of the project Very Happy

Post #328901 10th Aug 2017 7:55 pm
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p_gill



Member Since: 06 Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1218

United States 2008 Freelander 2 i6 SE Auto Tambora Flame

de1979 wrote:
........ no-one seems to really blame the oil.

Very interested in what you have to say about the different oil Paul Gill. Would you say this is the UK equivalent?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00307...QVK90UAMQF
I wonder if putting some 80w90 back in would make your noise return?

Spec says "where extreme pressures and shock loading are expected" - seems to fit with what Land Rover say!


DE1979,

I will start another thread this weekend and hopefully answer your questions.

I don't want to hijack MrRover75's thread

Thanks for the question

Paul

Post #328919 11th Aug 2017 3:47 am
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de1979



Member Since: 25 Sep 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 166

England 

Look forward to it Smile

Post #329152 14th Aug 2017 3:54 pm
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p_gill



Member Since: 06 Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1218

United States 2008 Freelander 2 i6 SE Auto Tambora Flame

DE1979

New thread started enjoy


MrRover75

Please excuse our distraction from your amazing DIY

Post #329161 14th Aug 2017 6:18 pm
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MRRover75



Member Since: 13 Jan 2017
Location: Sandnes
Posts: 316

Norway 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Manual Tambora Flame

Hi all,

I Have been busy with other things lately, but some more work has been done the last evenings. I continued with removing the pinion bearing races from the diff housing. The inner race was removed by punching it out with a suitable punch/drift sequentially side-by-side on its inner face. There is a shim between the bearing race end face and the diff housing, make sure this one don`T get damaged when punching out the bearing race. The thickness of this shim has probably been set at the factory to set the necessary pinion/crownwheel clearance?



I made a simple slide-hammer pulling tool for the outer bearings race. A suitable socket was found and mounted on the end of a M12 threaded rod. I found a good lump of steel and drilled a hole through to fit this one on the threaded rod. This made me able to pull out the bearing race:





The shaft seals was easily removed by punching out from the inside:



OK, Now everything is removed and the diff housing should be cleaned up throughly. All bearing and seal surfaces shall be inspected for damages and smoothed out with scotch brite i.e. as neccesary. Clean up the workbench and make everything ready for assembly.

Cleaned housing:

Click image to enlarge


Click image to enlarge

Post #329984 29th Aug 2017 5:05 am
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MRRover75



Member Since: 13 Jan 2017
Location: Sandnes
Posts: 316

Norway 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Manual Tambora Flame

Here are the new parts needed for the rebuild:

Outer pinion bearing - Timken 30206
Inner pinion bearing - Timken HM88649/HM88610 (Optional)
Collapsible spacer - LR023443
Retainer nut - LR050541
Pinion shaft seal - LR023442
Output shaft seals 2x - LR023440
Diff housing seal - LR030846
Diff to haldex seal - LR002888



Last edited by MRRover75 on 29th Aug 2017 9:09 am. Edited 1 time in total

Post #329985 29th Aug 2017 5:12 am
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MRRover75



Member Since: 13 Jan 2017
Location: Sandnes
Posts: 316

Norway 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Manual Tambora Flame

A bit about the bearing set up:

The pinion shaft is held in place with two bearings. As I can see it, the shim found between the inner bearing and the housing is used to set the clearance between the crown wheel and the pinion gear. The thickness of this shim is probably picked based on several measurements done at the factory. I guess one of the reasons why this bearing is not replaced in the official LR procedure, is that a replacement of this bearing might disturb the running clearance, and it might probably be best to leave this one alone from a DIY perspective.
The pre-load between the bearings are set by the tightening of the retaining nut. The neccesary pre-load is achieved when the nut is tightened up enough when a torque of 1.1Nm +/-0,2Nm is needed to rotate the shaft continuously. A collapsible spacer is situated between the bearings inner races. This one will be compressed when tightening up the nut. I guess the main purpose with this spacer is to create sufficient axial force against the retainer nut to lock it in place as it has no other locking mechanism like 2 sets of nuts, locking tabs or locking pins which might be seen in common industrial bearing arrangements. A thread locker compound is pre-applied to the nut from the factory, and is probably the only reason why this one shall be replaced upon rebuild.

Bearing arrangement:

Click image to enlarge


Collapsible spacer, used and new:

Click image to enlarge


Retainer nut with thread locking compound pre-applied:



Edit:

The pinion seal is a bit of a clever design. It is basically a double shaft seal with has the gear oil on one side and the haldex fluid on the other side. There is an air gap in between the lip seals which is ventilated through the small hole seen on the bottom of the diff casing. Any leakage from this hole is indicating a failing pinion shaft seal, but its better that the fluid leaks out here than mixing up the two fluids which would be the case if single lip seal was fitted in between and failing:

Ventilation bore:





X-section of seal:



Last edited by MRRover75 on 6th Sep 2017 8:17 am. Edited 1 time in total

Post #329986 29th Aug 2017 5:24 am
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MRRover75



Member Since: 13 Jan 2017
Location: Sandnes
Posts: 316

Norway 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Manual Tambora Flame
Mounting bearings

By experience, bearing races does have a tight fit but use to fit nicely if the rigth techniques is used. Basically it involves finding a way to press/pull the bearing race in squarely and with the load placed on the ring with tight fit. Heating/cooling the parts also helps a lot, but you need to work quick if heating is involved. I started with the pinion inner bearing. I found a suitable piece of tube that fit nicely over the input shaft, and made the end perfectly square. I put the shaft in the freezer for a couple of hours first, the heated the bearing slightly using a heat gun prior to assembly. The bearing slipped onto the shaft and only needed a few punches on the tube to get seated all to the bottom. Looking at the picture, you can see that the shaft is still cold:



Then I did the outer bearing race for the outer bearing. I put both outer bearing races into the freezer for a couple of hours first. I warmed up the diff housing using a heat gun prior to assembly. The outer bearing`s outer race was hammered easily in using the old bearing race and a suitable piece of tube:



I did a few similar attempts on the inner bearing`s outer race, but found it hard to get it in squarely. There is no parralell edges inside the housing to look at to confirm that the bearing is entered squarely before hammering it in. I decided to make a mounting bolt for this one. This is basically a piece of shaft with a flange that holds the bearing race centered and square, using the outer bearings outer race as a guide. The shaft has a snug fit inside the outer bearings race. Using a threaded rod and some steel bars together with heat/cold, pulled this bearing race nicely in position. Remember to put the shim in first!











Last edited by MRRover75 on 29th Aug 2017 10:17 am. Edited 3 times in total

Post #329990 29th Aug 2017 8:33 am
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Yorky Bob



Member Since: 28 Apr 2015
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 4561

United Kingdom 2013 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Firenze Red

What did that pile of parts cost you please ?

Shimming in the crown wheel is never going to be a a everyday DIY job, a very impressive write up. Thumbs Up FL2 MY10 TD4 GS traded in at 2 years
FL2 MY13 TD4 GS Current

Post #329991 29th Aug 2017 8:35 am
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MRRover75



Member Since: 13 Jan 2017
Location: Sandnes
Posts: 316

Norway 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Manual Tambora Flame

Hi Bob,

Thanks for that Smile

Most parts was bought from rimmebros. Its easily to find them there by searching on the part numbers. The bearings was bought from serious bearing sellers on ebay. These parts is not expensive Smile

Post #329993 29th Aug 2017 8:39 am
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Badger51



Member Since: 01 Mar 2014
Location: Coffs Harbour
Posts: 910

Australia 

Great write up mate, the correct part number for the nut is LR050541 though 👍 (Now Sold). 2008 Freelander 2 (Nazca Sand) SE TD4 Auto. Statutory write off & on WOVR for hail damage but still road legal.
171037Km as of 09/05/22
Superchips Bluefin Flash
Nanocom Evo II (also sold)

Post #329994 29th Aug 2017 9:01 am
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MRRover75



Member Since: 13 Jan 2017
Location: Sandnes
Posts: 316

Norway 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Manual Tambora Flame
Mounting input shaft

The collapsible spacer was put onto the input shaft and the shaft was then installed into the diff housing. Remember to oil the bearing first:



The inner bearing was heated up using a heat gun (60-80deg C i guess) before putting it onto the shaft.



Then I let everything cool down before proceeding with installing the retainer nut and tighten this to 250Nm using my tooling and torque wrench. As the nut is locked and shaft rotated, it shall be rotated counter clockwise for tightening:

Click image to enlarge


Now the procedure calls out for measuring torque needed for rotating the input shaft. When rotating evenly at 60RPM, the torque reading shall be 1.1NM +/- 0,2 using a dynamometer. I do not have access to such fancy equipment, but I made a simple Ø50mm spool wheel connected to an extension bar with a set screw. Together with a piece of string and a scale, I was able to measure the load needed to rotate the shaft:

Click image to enlarge


As we know, the formula for torque is: Torque = force X arm length.
The required force needed will then be: force = torque / arm length

1.1Nm / 0,025m = 44N

44N / 9,81 = 4,48kg

Tolerance is approx 20% of the specified torque, so my reading shall be within 3,6 - 5,4 kg

I checked my scale with 5 litres of water in a bucket prior to the test, and found it to show 0,5kg to much at 5kg. I just have to take this deviation into my readings.

250Nm was not enough to start compressing the collapsible spacer, so I had to tighten the retainer nut in several steps before the readings on the scale was within the specifications. I found that a lot more force was needed to get the nut moving than the 250Nm specified. I worked the nut down in steps until the play in the shaft was gone and that I could feel resistance was needed to get it rotated.
I got approx 4,5kg on the scale when done.

The shaft now rotates with a smooth and firm feeling, more like a newly installed wheel bearing. This is a completely different feel than the shaft had prior to disassembly.

Last edited by MRRover75 on 29th Aug 2017 9:15 am. Edited 2 times in total

Post #329995 29th Aug 2017 9:08 am
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MRRover75



Member Since: 13 Jan 2017
Location: Sandnes
Posts: 316

Norway 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Manual Tambora Flame

Badger51 wrote:
Great write up mate, the correct part number for the nut is LR050541 though 👍


Thanks, corrected now. It was a bit hard to read the part number from my picture Very Happy

Post #329996 29th Aug 2017 9:09 am
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MRRover75



Member Since: 13 Jan 2017
Location: Sandnes
Posts: 316

Norway 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Manual Tambora Flame
Finalizing assembly

Hi all,

So, its time to finalize the assembly.
All cleaned up well and new seals installed.

Pinion seal in place:

Click image to enlarge


New shaft seals in place:

Click image to enlarge




New O-ring seal installed:



Crown wheel cleaned in diesel bath with a soft brush, then dripped/blown dry before installed back into the housing. All bearings and gears liberally lubricated with gear oil:



Click image to enlarge


End cover put back in place. A drop of loctite 243 was added to the bolts prior to installation, then tightened to the specified 29Nm`s:

Click image to enlarge


Everything seems/feels fine. I am not sure that I would do things different another time. Now I just have to wait for the right time-slot to put this diff back to my FLII Smile

Edit:

Some more useful information:

This video shows many details of the process, but he is a bit rough with the bearings i think:


Removal of the diff from the car, Austen`s brillian simple procedure:
1. Remove 2 X 10mm on bolts holding rear exhaust box chassis on drivers side (passenger side in France)
2. Slide exhaust rubbers of both sides of the exhaust box, exhaust will now hang down, support with straps.
3. Remove 6 x torx head prop bolts, then shock prop flange with hammer and big chisel to dislodge prop flange from input shaft of haldex. Unplug larger haldex plug from loom, use a small flat ended screwdriver and twist in the gap between plug and button, this should release it.
4. Remove 4 X 10mm bolts on bottom of diff hanger to diff
5. Support diff
6. Loosen 18mm bolt on diff hanger bracket on drivers side a couple of turns (passenger side in France). Remove opposite side 18mm bolt. Hanger will now swing down.
7. Remove 2x15mm bolts from rear of diff through rear subframe
8. Lower diff slightly, unplug breather pipes.
9. Lower further and slide backwards until driverside (passenger in France) drive shaft touches exhaust, now pull out this driveshaft, it will just come out.
10. Lower diff further, looking at remaining drive shaft at 11 o'clock , ontp of the diff castings a hole, you can putba strong screwdriver or drift into there and pop the drive shaft out.
11. Remove haldex 4x10mm bolts

Fitting is complete reversal

Last edited by MRRover75 on 6th Sep 2017 8:43 am. Edited 1 time in total

Post #330487 6th Sep 2017 8:08 am
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Yorky Bob



Member Since: 28 Apr 2015
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 4561

United Kingdom 2013 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Firenze Red

I am not sure that I would do things different another time

Thoughts on drilling casing for a drain plug ? FL2 MY10 TD4 GS traded in at 2 years
FL2 MY13 TD4 GS Current

Post #330495 6th Sep 2017 8:38 am
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