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Home > Technical > 2.2 wont start after new exhaust cam fitment
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alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: RO
Posts: 4640

Besides the positioning sensors (crankshaft and camshaft), the other sensors, if malfunctioning, are substituted with default values.
The water sensor is on the right side of the engine, where is the thermostat, on that plastic pipe hub, pointing somehow downwards, towards the high pressure pump.
The oil sensor is on the lower part of the engine, near the starter (or behind it, not remember for sure). You may have disturbed it when you removed the starter for engine alignment.

Post #312573 4th Dec 2016 10:24 am
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Walenut



Member Since: 17 Jun 2012
Location: Midlands
Posts: 114

United Kingdom 2010 Freelander 2 TD4_e XS Manual Lago Grey

Don't know the condition of the broken cam or how it broke but on past experience of a cam belt letting go I think I would have still checked the valves, 100 percent happy with compression & valve timing?

You'd get away with a clipped piston on a Morris Minor, not sure you would on a Freelander with all the electronic monitoring? Neutral

Post #312579 4th Dec 2016 11:55 am
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dpcwright



Member Since: 04 Feb 2011
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 70

United Kingdom 2011 Freelander 2 SD4 XS Auto Baltic Blue

It could be that your oil temp is being measured in degrees Rankine as ice melts at 492 on the Rankine scale which also uses the Fahrenheit scale

Post #312603 4th Dec 2016 4:46 pm
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The dog



Member Since: 03 Oct 2016
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 62

Scotland 

I'm happy enough that the compression is good as the end of the exhaust cam broke at the hp/l[p fuel pump drive no broken belt or valve to piston clash occurred. I'm very confident that the engine has good compressions on all cylinders it's definitely down to having no fuel injection unfortunately I cant yet figure out why. Sad
I wondered if the very high reading on the oil temp had an influence or stopped the injection however no fault code appears for this. I find it strange that the figure is so high for the oil temperature when every other sensor shows normal Farenheight figures. I guess it's worth a try disconnecting the oil temp sensor. I'm now beginning to wonder if the anti theft immobiliser system has thrown a spanner in the injection works.

On another subject I bought myself a Hantek 1008C oscilloscope to play with, unfortunately I could not get the laptops I tried to link to see the scope, so it's now on its way back tp Amazon however I'll have a go with a replacement Hantek 1008 as it looks good enough I guess for hobby use . I'm currently using an old lab scope which works ok but it's not the best.

Post #312628 4th Dec 2016 8:20 pm
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Walenut



Member Since: 17 Jun 2012
Location: Midlands
Posts: 114

United Kingdom 2010 Freelander 2 TD4_e XS Manual Lago Grey

Interesting thread Dog, keep us posted. Thumbs Up

Post #312630 4th Dec 2016 8:48 pm
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The dog



Member Since: 03 Oct 2016
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 62

Scotland 

Question for all and Alex. On switching off does anyone know how long the HP fuel rail should hold pressure for or does it dump the pressure on switch off? Thanks in advance. The dog.

Post #312660 5th Dec 2016 10:49 am
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alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: RO
Posts: 4640

There is no need to hold pressure for long as the HP fuel pump quickly rise the pressure on cranking.
And also a small quantity of diesel is designed to leak off, on both HP pump and rail pressure control valve, for cooling and lubricating.

Do you have any "crash input" error logged on BCM?

Try this procedure:
- clear all engine error codes
- switch off the ignition
- wait with ignition off for 1 minute
- turn on the ignition, but DO NOT start the engine
- wait for 1 minute with ignition on
- crank the engine, without prior turning the ignition off
- after a long crank the engine should start and run as normal
- if it doesn't start, read again the error codes

Post #312704 5th Dec 2016 5:58 pm
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The dog



Member Since: 03 Oct 2016
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 62

Scotland 

Thanks Alex. No "crash input" errors logged and the fuel rail does built quickly on cranking.
I'll have a go with the procedure you describe after having a look into the high oil temperature reading shown on the OBD data.
I will not get a chance to look further at the car for many days but thanks again in the meantime.

Post #312710 5th Dec 2016 10:23 pm
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Trav



Member Since: 27 Aug 2016
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 167

Scotland 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Lux Manual Rimini Red

Have you pulled a glow plug just to check if they are wet? Surely that gives you 100% clarity that they aren't opening.

I should be home from this rig before xmas if you are wanting a shot of JLR SDD? As I know generic scanners such Autel often can be quite misleading. I know mines can be

Post #313288 16th Dec 2016 11:25 pm
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The dog



Member Since: 03 Oct 2016
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 62

Scotland 

Hi Trav I've been working away again and have not had another go at the Freelander, cold dark evenings are also a bit off-putting I've recently hooked up an old oscilloscope with a current clamp to the injectors and couldn't detect a signal. I've newly bought myself a cheap Hantek 1008 scope which I'll have another go with. I'll also disconnect the oil temperature sensor and see if this makes any difference.
Not sure how I'm supposed to pass on my contact No to you on this forum?
It's beginning to look likely I'm going to need some help with this motor I hate being beat though.
Good your home for Christmas I've done too many Christmases offshore in the past.
Thanks again.

Post #313478 19th Dec 2016 10:19 pm
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Trav



Member Since: 27 Aug 2016
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 167

Scotland 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Lux Manual Rimini Red

It's not really getting beat as it is a fresh pair of eyes on the job. I also hate getting beat so this is what I say to get over it.

It was all up in the air until the last few hours. It back to being confident will get off. Cant grumble too much got both off last year.

I will private mail you my number just drop me a txt and I will let you know if I'm t home.

Post #313493 20th Dec 2016 4:46 am
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The dog



Member Since: 03 Oct 2016
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 62

Scotland 

First off. Trav thanks for your call much appreciated.
For others following the thread here is where I'm at with things.
I purchased a Hantek 1008 scope to help with testing first though I checked the power 5V and ground to both the crank and cam sensors both good. I then back probed the cam sensor plug and checked for a signal with the scope all appears ok repeated the checks on the crank sensor again it looks ok. Difficult to accurately see the scope pattern as it only there on the laptop screen when cranking but it does appear to me to be correct. I also purchased a Hantek amp clamp for use to check for injector signal current absolutely nothing showing there just as I expected. All fuses have been checked and are ok. HP fuel pressure on the rail does come up but I'll go back and re-check. I've resistance checked all the injectors and all are within the given ohms range. Not sure where to look next Big Cry The dog.

Post #314800 8th Jan 2017 11:36 pm
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Trav



Member Since: 27 Aug 2016
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 167

Scotland 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Lux Manual Rimini Red

How is the rest of the live data looking. IE oil and water temp? Check them at cold if they were reading really high readings at cold it would indicate a fault but I would say they would have to be significantly high before causing a non start issue.

I would say it's most likely be a engine management data problem causing the injectors not to open. Whether it's fuel pressure water temp oil pressure/temp as well as anything to do with the ECU's ability to recognise TDC.

Or can anyone else think of any other sensors that could cause a non start situation?

Post #314805 9th Jan 2017 1:08 am
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alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: RO
Posts: 4640

The pulse width and the current needed for opening the injectors is very small.
You wont be able to see them with that inductive amp clamp.
As the voltage is about 150V, use a 10:1 probe on 5V/div scale and connect directly on the injector.

Post #314807 9th Jan 2017 7:09 am
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The dog



Member Since: 03 Oct 2016
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 62

Scotland 

Alex Many thanks for the info I'll now have a go with the scope again without the amp clamp. I was a little worried I'd damage the scope looking directly for injector voltage rather than current.

Trav. I did have a odd OBDII reading on the oil temperature it showed a massive543def F I did wonder why it showed this and intended to disconnect the temp probe plug but it's in a horrible place to get at. From your OBDII readers would you be able to tell me what I should expect to see there I did expect to see the ambient temperature of around 10deg C / 50deg F there. No fault code comes up for the oil temp sensor though.

I note e-bay are selling crank position annunciator rings for around £20 I'm tempted to replace as a matter of course although the scope does appear to be showing the correct signal just not too easy to see on your own when cranking for short period of time. Not sure yet if the Hantek scope can record the signal form or not.
I'll get there yet....hopefully Laughing The Dog

Post #314828 9th Jan 2017 1:11 pm
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