My wife works in a N HS nursery looking after the doctors/Nurses kids

They can drop their kids in for a hour or the whole day, without booking in, because they pay for the full day without notifying the nursery.

They need to have the correct staff to kid ratio as you would expect and doing the rota is a nightmare for the manager due to this policy.

Recently another nursery got a rollicking from Ofsted due to the ratio been incorrect, so they are been extra cautious.

She works shifts, either starting at 7am and a earlier finish or later start but finishing 6pm 3 days a week.

Yesterday, she was at work before 7am, (working till 4:45pm) sorting things, login room temp, fridge temps, she then had to work till 10am when she managed to have a her 15min break due to been busy, her lunch is then set for 12noon for 30mins. (i believe) she then doesn't get another break. so in effect having a break and lunch very close together

But due to the ratio of kids still there at 4:45pm she gets told that she will have to work longer, till parents collect kids or the nursery closes. She was still there at 6pm when it closed without a break.

The managers attitude is bad anyway, no people skills at all, but she has the view the kids/nursery comes first and you have your breaks when ever you get chance, but you have to take your lunch at the time allotted on the rota.

Its not just my wife, but others also are in the same situation, working long periods without breaks, then when your thinking great i finish in 30 mins your told the ratios wrong and your working over, sod anything else you have planned for after work etc

Its hard to plan rota due to not knowing when or how many kids are going to be in, to me they should rota every day and time for the maximum kids they have, be over staffed, but they won't as that cost money as they rely on bank staff for extra cover.

I advised her that she needs to speak to HR as they have a duty of care for their staffs health and working conditions, but the last time she did, over another matter, they fed it straight back down the line and she had phone calls from managers and area managers making her feel she was in the wrong.

The manager is a b ch, speaks to people like , but only when there is no witness

what would you do? or suggest?

She wishes to stay with in the NHS, but jobs on her pay grade are few and far between, private nurseries pay peanuts and the NHS pension package is very good.

It's not unusual for workers to have flexi breaks, my guys were told, and they accepted that their 3 breaks a day timings would all depend on the running/breakdown of the factory lines which would come first. I see a similarity here.

As for the manager I would send in a couple of heavies and sort her, but seriously if she does talk to her staff in a bad way then perhaps a personal recorder would be in order to gather some evidence.

Unfortunately as for reporting it is the same everywhere, it comes right back down to the manager who treat you like in the first place. It's a no win situation.
There must be a 'Human Resources' person within the NHS that you can talk to without discrimination and advice would be given on the best way to tackle it, that person should not feed it back down without authority from the complainant.

Last edited by EYorkshire on 31st Jan 2014 12:51 pm. Edited 1 time in total

There is a grievance procedure in the NHS which she can access. If she does not want to do that she can ask for a meeting with HR to discuss and clarify her terms of employment and ask them to put in writing the agreed out come of the meeting. It is difficult to escalate things like this without ruffling some feathers but if she does it in a calm professional manner, common sense will win in the end.

Of course, she could always secretly turn on her phone recorder when the managers are talking to her!  John
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Get your wife to get out her 'Terms or Contract of employment' and have a good read of what is expected of her as an employee, as my guys accepted the employment on condition of flexi breaks.

Is your wife in a union? If so it might be worth having a chat with a rep. Unions get a bad press about strikes but they do offer some good services. My wife is a teacher. She had a problem which her head refused to sort. My wife went to her area union official who went to the councils HR department and the issue was sorted very quickly. Black MY2013 SD4 GS Auto, Wood Company Armrest, Freel2 sticker.
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Although it may not feel fair, it is not illegal based on my understanding and the timings the OP mentions above. You can be expected to work up to six hours without a break Anything better is down to local agreement with employers, your contract of employment etc.

I operate in the construction sector and the legislation I would look to is the Working Time Regulations (and I believe this applies to all sectors). Here's what the HSE say about breaks and work:-

http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/workingtime.htm

thanks all, you have all responded with things i have suggested, though recording could be difficult as they can't have mobiles in the room.

I have told her to look in her contract, not only for terms of breaks and lunch, but the expectation to work over with very limited notice.

I have suggested HR as well as the Union she is a member off

I have also told her to log everything, from the way she (and others) are spoken too as well as the overtime.

She is feeling really down over it, not enjoying working there and this needs to be recorded down officially at work as they have a duty of care for staffs wellfair and health and if things reported are not looked in too it could be constructive dismissal.

The working day, and the rules, i don't think they are breaking them as Donny says, 6 hours is the max, which is 30 mins more than she does when told to work over.

I worked in NHS and Social Care all my life and I can sympathise with your wife's position. There was a time when managers within both organisations were high quality people who cared and looked after their staff and saw this was the best way to get the work done.

I am afraid her experience is now all too common as everyone is driven to reach targets, deliver more for less etc and the managers who rise to the top are people who don't think they have any responsibility for staff well being at all.

HR are on the side of the organisation and will not advise her adequately - it's not their responsibility or priority, rather they will always want to ensure the organisation can't be held culpable. They will generally always alert any manager as well as part of fulfilling their tasks.

UNISON is the biggest union in the NHS and depending on the workplace rep can be very helpful, it's where I would start though I have known reps who were less than useful.

Going head to head with this manager will not generally result in a win for your wife, she is more expendable, unless the other staff in the section protest with her and make it a formal group grievance.

Trying to think of ways to "manage the manager" might be more useful in the long run.

My wife works for the NHS too - receptionist in a Doctors surgery. On Friday (now) she can finish any time between 6.30 and 7.30. It's a pain in the arse - if we want to go out with friends on a Friday she has to book a day off. I've even had to cook my own dinners some Fridays!  Past: FL2 TD4 HSE Auto
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you can buy a tiny Dictaphone or mini recorder and stuff it in her undergarments ! just put a little black tape over an LED if it has one that flashes whilst recording !
Worked very well for us when my daughter was having hassle at work
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I have been in maintenance most of my working life, so unusual hours are expected (24h shifts back to back!, not getting home for days), but this is expected from the start.

But your wifes case is different, the working hours sound like they have changed, so this is a job for the union, definately not for the HR, as they by definition are ther to protect the companies interests, if the companies best interests are served by messing the staff about then that's what HR will apply. HR will only side with an employee against a manager if it is clear that the manager is jepodising the company financially. Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
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i was at a party on Saturday and the others were telling me how much of a bitch she was, and i kept telling them to get the union on the job

The manager was there, but they wouldn't tell me who it was

The only work related regular breaks her Ladyship gets is when patients come in with broken limbs that they wish for her to fix. Rest, refreshment and sustenance are a rare and most welcome interruption to her normal working day.

The work place laws are there to give her the legal right to a break, and indeed to limit her working hours - but hey ho - up at 6 first patient in her surgery at 07:30hrs and not unusual to be home anytime before 21:00hrs. And then the phone rings at 4am and she's off again to someone's child, mother, father etc., who urgently need her medical skills after only a couple of hours kip. Her's is a 24/7 365 contract with the local alpine communities.

In theses alps social and family life take a very distant secondary role. Daughter and I support her Ladyship. We are very proud of her devotion and specialist skill sets. She studied long and hard, and for us it would be a tad tardy to complain about a missed dinner or a theatre booking. But what's fine by us is not okay with many, and understandably so.

Best advice if long hours and irregular breaks, a disrupted social and family calendar are too much to bear then get out of the line of fire through amicable negotiation or a job change; otherwise at some point further down the line it will become an all consuming inferno.

I can agree with almost everything that Athelstan says especially his last point that these things will hurt you in the end if not resolved or escaped from!

I would say though that there is the world of difference between contracting to provide cover 24/7 everyday as needs dictate and working in a setting where there are contractual hours and a reasonable expectation of proper breaks. One of those differences is usually the amount of money paid in return for whatever arrangement has been signed up for!

When the problems are caused by poor management, poor planning skills, poor people skills etc then it is particularly galling but sadly getting new jobs or leaving jobs that you really like apart from being pratted about by a manager is a lot harder to do than to say. Ultimately leaving might be the only course of action to take to protect one's well being or even mental health but what an indictment of the workplace that is!