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The Doctor



Member Since: 09 Jul 2010
Location: Gallifrey
Posts: 4612

United Kingdom 
Braking in snow

Hopefully some severe snow won't be too far away now but I have a question.

The plan when driving on snow is to slow down using the gears but when braking is ever needed on snow, there is a juddering sensation through the brake pedal which is something to do with the ABS.

I have heard different views on what should be done in these circumstances. So what is the best option, keep applying the brakes despite the juddering or release and re-apply? LL.B (Hons) - University of Derby
LOT (Lord of Time) - University of Gallifrey

Post #117303 18th Oct 2011 11:11 am
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razmabaz



Member Since: 20 Feb 2011
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 246

United Kingdom 2008 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto Santorini Black

Keep your foot on the brake! The juddering is the ABS releasing and reapplying far quicker than you ever could! Freelander 1 TD4 HSE - gone, 2 weeks after the Cat.Converter!
Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto MY08 - Santorini black

Post #117305 18th Oct 2011 11:16 am
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Captain Worm



Member Since: 12 Sep 2010
Location: Solihull
Posts: 969

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto Narvik Black

if you feel juddering when breaking it means that your wheels are locking up and ABS is doing its job of trying to keep em moving.

If you are find that you get this juddering a lot you are either a) going to fast and need to take it slower or b) you have lead in your right foot!

In snow the trick really is to feather the brake pedal so that the ABS is not kicking in, jamming it on and off is not going to slow you down any more, you need to hold it just at the point when it does kick. Problem is that a lot of inexperienced drivers panic and jam on the brake, which in the dry or wet, ABS helps with as it means you can steer away from the obstacle, in the snow ABS is next to useless and in fact hitting the brake hard can have the reverse effect of making you speed up as the ABS is trying to keep you wheels turning.

Another top tip is to keep drive engaged for as long as possible so you get engine braking as well.. easier in an auto as it is always engaged, you risk stalling in a manual if not driven well.

So in summary, when driving in slow, do everything really slowly and gently. jamming brakes on will not work and just because you have a 4x4 does not mean you can stop any quicker than anyone else... quite the contrary, trying to pull 2 tonnes of car up to a halt will be significantly more difficult than a little light 2 wheel drive hatch with no ABS! Freelander 2 TD4 Auto, SE, Narvik Black, Alpaca full leather, Rear Headrest Entertainment System, 6 CD, 18 HSE Wheels, Privicy tints

Post #117306 18th Oct 2011 11:19 am
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EYorkshire



Member Since: 18 Nov 2010
Location: (!)
Posts: 4392

ABS in snow is not desirable so it pays to be very gentle and have a feel for the brake conditions.
In snow a car will stop quicker if a locked wheel digs into the snow, pushing it forward and creating a wedge of snow in front of the tyre. As ABS will not allow a skid that build up of snow will never happen and will take longer to stop, although ABS will allow you to have better steering control.

Post #117307 18th Oct 2011 11:22 am
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ad210358



Member Since: 12 Oct 2008
Location: Here and There
Posts: 7464

England 

Ideally drive as though you have no brakes, just using them to finally come to a stop.

Post #117325 18th Oct 2011 12:50 pm
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alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: RO
Posts: 4640

EYorkshire wrote:
In snow a car will stop quicker if a locked wheel digs into the snow, pushing it forward and creating a wedge of snow in front of the tyre.

That is true only on loose snow or on soft sand.
You'll only find loose snow on country lanes, when you are the first to drive through.
On compacted snow or ice (what you'll usualy meet on city streets), ABS is more useful than no ABS.

Post #117326 18th Oct 2011 1:33 pm
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D99



Member Since: 08 Mar 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 386

England 

Anyone who hasn't driven much on snow / ice or isn't quite used to their vehicle should simply have a play in a large empty open space like a car park after it has snowed, and have a go at spinning the wheels, skidding, sharp turns and try the Terrain Response to see how it alters the FL2's set up.
Obviously conditions vary all the time, but at least it will give you an idea how the vehicle behaves when traction is lost in a safe environment, rather than feeling it for the first time on a busy road!

Post #117358 18th Oct 2011 5:35 pm
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Pegleg



Member Since: 15 Apr 2010
Location: Deep in mid Wales
Posts: 3114

Wales 2008 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Santorini Black

If going downhill, make sure HDC in 'on'. I've had this working on steep snow covered hills, very useful.
But it only comes on with very steep gradients.
Yes you're right, use the gears to slow down and if you really need to brake, let ABS do it. Remember stopping almost 2 tons takes some doing, having 4x4 doesn't make a scrap of difference in this respect. Winter tyres however, do help. Another member of the failed FL2 clutch/DMF club, twice.

Post #117361 18th Oct 2011 6:22 pm
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wizking



Member Since: 18 Mar 2010
Location: Around
Posts: 1848

England 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 XS Auto Indus Silver

I don't believe that the gradient has to be steep for HDC to work, I have used it several times and it works just fine anywhere, it will just brake the car to a set speed.

Post #117369 18th Oct 2011 6:56 pm
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rchrdleigh



Member Since: 18 Aug 2007
Location: Somewhere in the East of England
Posts: 1601

England 2011 Freelander 2 TD4 XS Manual Baltic Blue

In a manual HDC will only work in 1st gear/reverse gear and it will work on any slope - it also works on near flat ground particularly if 'mud & ruts' is selected.

Post #117370 18th Oct 2011 7:00 pm
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BossBob



Member Since: 30 Sep 2010
Location: Bristol
Posts: 1238

England 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Baltic Blue

HDC will also work in 2nd gear in my 2007 manual GS (ignore the warning that it isn't available in this gear) and the speed of decent can be controlled by the cruise control +- buttons on the steering wheel.

Post #117383 18th Oct 2011 7:46 pm
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Pegleg



Member Since: 15 Apr 2010
Location: Deep in mid Wales
Posts: 3114

Wales 2008 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Santorini Black

Yes, does work in 2nd gear. Used in 2nd all last winter to good effect. Another member of the failed FL2 clutch/DMF club, twice.

Post #117385 18th Oct 2011 8:03 pm
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rchrdleigh



Member Since: 18 Aug 2007
Location: Somewhere in the East of England
Posts: 1601

England 2011 Freelander 2 TD4 XS Manual Baltic Blue

According to the MY11 Handbook:
Manual transmission: HDC can be used in first or reverse gears.

While the 2007 Hanbook states:

If the vehicle is fitted with a manual
transmission, HDC should only be used in first,
or reverse gears.

However, elsewhere the standard speed for HDC in 2nd Gear is 9mph in Grass,Gravel,Snow and Mud Ruts and 10.3 mph in Sand. In 1st Gear the standard speed is 6.2mph in Grass, Gravel, Sbow and Mud Ruts and 9.5mph in Sand. The main difference between 1st and 2nd Gears is that in 1st you can set a lower speed of 4.7 mph and 6.2 mph (Sand) while in 2nd you are stuck with the standard speed.

For interest I tried using HDC in 2nd Gear in my MY11 Manual and it didn't work.

Post #117388 18th Oct 2011 8:25 pm
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geoffk



Member Since: 11 Jan 2008
Location: chester
Posts: 164

United Kingdom 2008 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Sumatra Black

remember your car will not stall in 1st gear on a manual as its got anti stall built in.Just found that out after 4 years of ownership.. Rolling Eyes

Post #121524 26th Nov 2011 3:41 pm
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landy19840



Member Since: 13 Mar 2011
Location: Non
Posts: 1817

Israel 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Zermatt Silver

It does stall, mine stalled loads when off roading. More so when going down super steep hills and the hdc could not cope

Post #121525 26th Nov 2011 3:44 pm
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