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GaryLaird



Member Since: 23 Feb 2019
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 59

Scotland 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Zermatt Silver
Smoking & Noisy Engine......Possible Injector Issue

New owner of a 2010 Freelander, bought with issues. Full story is here http://www.freel2.com/forum/topic33570.html

Would like your opinion on the problem. I think Confused its an injector issue as I've heard similar sounding engines on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtxUqWbBDvQ

I've started taking off the air inlet pipework and discover a fair bit of oil plastered over the backside of the engine cover however the engine below looks clean and no sign of any oil and/or diesel which is a bit of a puzzle. Injectors look clean...at least as far as I can see from the outside! The only engine fault codes I have relate to a failed throttle body, bad air sensor and a failed glow plug.

P0380 – Glow Plug Circuit A
P02E1 – Diesel Intake Air Valve Flow Control - Performance
P02EG – Diesel Intake Air Flow Sensor – Circuit High
P02E5 – Diesel Intake Air Control – Stuck Closed



Engine Cover

Click image to enlarge


Top Of Engine Showing Injectors & Fuel Rail
Click image to enlarge


Click image to enlarge


Air Inlet Pipe Showing Oil Contamination
Click image to enlarge


I have purchased three 2nd hand injectors and will remove the four fitted giving me seven which I will have tested and hopefully end up with 4 verified working injectors which I will refit. While doing this I will remove inlet manifold and replace with a non swirl valve type, clean EGR and associated pipework and replace glow plugs.....as well as changing throttle body and air sensor.

So all comments/ideas gratefully received Very Happy

Last edited by GaryLaird on 27th Mar 2019 11:26 pm. Edited 1 time in total

Post #369151 27th Mar 2019 8:41 pm
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shiggsy



Member Since: 13 Jan 2013
Location: Kent
Posts: 590

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Baltic Blue

That point of the air inlet pipe is a common source for oil drips, it gets there via the PCV pipework. A common quick fix is to replace the original spring clamp with a jubilee clip. 
Hung like Einstein, smart as a horse.

Post #369174 27th Mar 2019 11:12 pm
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Deafender



Member Since: 09 Mar 2019
Location: Buckingham
Posts: 21

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Zermatt Silver

DEFINITELY get your second hand injectors properly tested...!!

I've just had to get two brand new (i.e. NOT re-conditioned) injectors swapped out following a complete engine transplant... 2009 Freelander 2 HSE, just had a new engine fitted so good for another 200K miles at least!

Post #369176 27th Mar 2019 11:25 pm
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GaryLaird



Member Since: 23 Feb 2019
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 59

Scotland 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Zermatt Silver

shiggsy wrote:
That point of the air inlet pipe is a common source for oil drips, it gets there via the PCV pipework. A common quick fix is to replace the original spring clamp with a jubilee clip.


Yep...indeed that has already been done so oily cover is maybe historic issue and just needs cleaned up. Thanks! 2010 FL2 TD4 GS

Post #369220 28th Mar 2019 5:55 pm
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GaryLaird



Member Since: 23 Feb 2019
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 59

Scotland 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Zermatt Silver

Deafender wrote:
DEFINITELY get your second hand injectors properly tested...!!

I've just had to get two brand new (i.e. NOT re-conditioned) injectors swapped out following a complete engine transplant...


I will take all seven injectors to be properly tested at pressure and reported so I know what I'm working with.Hopefully will end up with at least four that are good to use.

On the point of re-conditioned injectors I had read somewhere that these type of common rail injectors...I think called piezoelectric cant be re-conditioned. Cleaned yes but when their faulty their done......I don't know how true that is as many being offered for sale Confused 2010 FL2 TD4 GS


Last edited by GaryLaird on 28th Mar 2019 9:09 pm. Edited 2 times in total

Post #369221 28th Mar 2019 6:03 pm
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GaryLaird



Member Since: 23 Feb 2019
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 59

Scotland 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Zermatt Silver

So today have removed three injectors with little issues. The fourth is stuck...just started to rock so I've left it soaking in carb cleaner overnight. Need to also figure out how to get to the EGR pipe flange bolt at the back of the engine. I'm hoping you can get access from underneath......either that or you need to be a contortionist Very Happy

One question about these injectors. Both the Haynes manual and the LR workshop manual say that injectors should be stored upright to keep diesel inside......anyone know why that is? There is also a reference in manual I'm not following regarding injector removal "Note the position of the plastic alignment sleeve"? I don't see any alignment function on the injectors Confused

Click image to enlarge


Click image to enlarge


One injector still to come out!
Click image to enlarge


Click image to enlarge



Also simple question......are cylinders numbered left to right (1-4) 2010 FL2 TD4 GS

Post #369222 28th Mar 2019 6:16 pm
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AJ918



Member Since: 26 Mar 2018
Location: North West
Posts: 76

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Santorini Black

In days gone by, diesel injectors although cumbersome to fit, were generally seen as plug and play. However, since the advent of common rail diesel systems, and in turn common rail injectors, the garage can often be left confused or unsure as to whether an Injector needs coding or not.

Common rail diesel systems offers a number of benefits over traditional diesel systems, such as improved performance, lowered fuel consumption and quieter engines. Another significant advantage of a common rail system is its ability to uniquely reduce emissions, the buzz word on the lips of every Eurocrat.

So why code injectors? An injector code, typically known as an IMA code (Bosch and Siemens) or a calibration code (Delphi), is a code that is programmed to the ECU for accurate communication and Injection control. With ever increasing emissions legislation and tightening of limits, vehicle manufacturers have been forced to more accurately control the flow of fuel going into the engine to optimize the efficiency of the combustion process and control emissions within acceptable limits...

The IMA coding is an industry standard: Injector Menge Abgleichung (injector Quantity Offset). When an injector goes through the OE test it generates an IMA code which identifies where in the tolerance range the needle and nozzle assembly fit, this allows the ECU to vary the fueling accordingly and optimize the engine performance. Failure to code in the injectors can result in several issues:

Performance – In some systems it may be possible to drive away and not notice any difference. In reality, if the injectors have not been coded, it is unlikely that the customer will be getting the optimum performance from the vehicle and may well end up back at the garage with an increase in fuel consumption or black smoke etc.
Non start – In newer systems if you do not code in the injectors the vehicle will not start
Poor / lumpy running – as the injectors are not coded, the ECU will carry on fueling as if the previous injector was still present, which can cause poor performance. The engine management light is also likely to come on necessitating another visit to the garage.

Post #369229 28th Mar 2019 7:24 pm
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GaryLaird



Member Since: 23 Feb 2019
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 59

Scotland 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Zermatt Silver

AJ918 wrote:
In days gone by, diesel injectors although cumbersome to fit, were generally seen as plug and play. However, since the advent of common rail diesel systems, and in turn common rail injectors, the garage can often be left confused or unsure as to whether an Injector needs coding or not.

Common rail diesel systems offers a number of benefits over traditional diesel systems, such as improved performance, lowered fuel consumption and quieter engines. Another significant advantage of a common rail system is its ability to uniquely reduce emissions, the buzz word on the lips of every Eurocrat.

So why code injectors? An injector code, typically known as an IMA code (Bosch and Siemens) or a calibration code (Delphi), is a code that is programmed to the ECU for accurate communication and Injection control. With ever increasing emissions legislation and tightening of limits, vehicle manufacturers have been forced to more accurately control the flow of fuel going into the engine to optimize the efficiency of the combustion process and control emissions within acceptable limits...

The IMA coding is an industry standard: Injector Menge Abgleichung (injector Quantity Offset). When an injector goes through the OE test it generates an IMA code which identifies where in the tolerance range the needle and nozzle assembly fit, this allows the ECU to vary the fueling accordingly and optimize the engine performance. Failure to code in the injectors can result in several issues:

Performance – In some systems it may be possible to drive away and not notice any difference. In reality, if the injectors have not been coded, it is unlikely that the customer will be getting the optimum performance from the vehicle and may well end up back at the garage with an increase in fuel consumption or black smoke etc.
Non start – In newer systems if you do not code in the injectors the vehicle will not start
Poor / lumpy running – as the injectors are not coded, the ECU will carry on fueling as if the previous injector was still present, which can cause poor performance. The engine management light is also likely to come on necessitating another visit to the garage.


Thank for the detailed input. I believe a 2010 FL2 should be OK to run without changing the injector codings based on other reports I've read but of course fine tuning will give improvement. I would plan to record which injectors are installed where and have this coding done by a garage with required equipment. To his end I have recorded following data from the injectors but which is the important IMA code....do you know?

Cylinder 2
06111E2030
05125 2232
SARNFFW A75

Cylinder 3
06213D3030
05094 2272
SARNFFW A6W

Cylinder 4
10319EE038
05107 2271
SAR5FFW A7W 2010 FL2 TD4 GS

Post #369231 28th Mar 2019 8:15 pm
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AJ918



Member Since: 26 Mar 2018
Location: North West
Posts: 76

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Santorini Black

DELPHI Common Rail Injectors – All require coding to the engine. Typical code is 16 alphanumeric characters (C2i Injectors) or 20 characters for more recent applications (C3i injectors). Code typically found on Injector head.

DENSO Common Rail Injectors – As a rule, all require coding, although some very early releases may not. Typical code length is 16-24 alphanumeric characters dependent upon vehicle marquee. Code typically found on Injector head. You can also use the QR code found on the injector for this information.

VDO/Siemens Common Rail Injectors Injector’s – Only VW applications at this moment require coding. Typical length is 6 digits and found on the injector head.

BOSCH Common Rail Injectors – As a rule all require coding, although some earlier releases may not, in simple terms if an IMA code is present then the injector will need coding. Typical length of code is 6-10 digits and found on Injector head.

N.B. – The coding information above is related to new diesel Injectors. A remanufactured injector if purchased from an Authorized Field Repairer will also have a new calibration code, which is typically affixed to the injector as a sticker or label.

Post #369233 28th Mar 2019 8:30 pm
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GaryLaird



Member Since: 23 Feb 2019
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 59

Scotland 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Zermatt Silver

AJ918 wrote:
BOSCH Common Rail Injectors – As a rule all require coding, although some earlier releases may not, in simple terms if an IMA code is present then the injector will need coding. Typical length of code is 6-10 digits and found on Injector head.

N.B. – The coding information above is related to new diesel Injectors. A remanufactured injector if purchased from an Authorized Field Repairer will also have a new calibration code, which is typically affixed to the injector as a sticker or label.


Right well these are Bosch 0445115042 Injectors 2010 FL2 TD4 GS

Post #369235 28th Mar 2019 9:04 pm
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GaryLaird



Member Since: 23 Feb 2019
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 59

Scotland 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Zermatt Silver

All injectors now out and sent for testing! 2010 FL2 TD4 GS

Post #369301 29th Mar 2019 7:03 pm
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GaryLaird



Member Since: 23 Feb 2019
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 59

Scotland 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Zermatt Silver

Well.......new injectors now fitted along with new timing belt/water pump and starter. Sadly this has made little difference to my noisy smoking engine. Maybe a bit less grey/white smoke which still smells like diesel but as noisy as ever. Its a Censored as I had convinced myself that it was faulty injectors. The noise seems to be coming from top of engine Crying or Very sad Just what would cause this sort of noise? Car starts OK.
Now zero error codes being reported.

So what are the possibilities:

Injectors not coded to ECU?
Failed cylinder head (noise is escaping gasses?) Coolant is clean and no contamination obvious in the engine oil?
Failed EGR valve?
Knackered cam shafts/valves?
Bad piston/rod (have not checked cylinder compression)
Failed turbo?

Another engine video of the noise Shocked
 2010 FL2 TD4 GS


Last edited by GaryLaird on 15th Apr 2019 5:36 pm. Edited 1 time in total

Post #370252 15th Apr 2019 5:19 pm
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GaryLaird



Member Since: 23 Feb 2019
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 59

Scotland 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Zermatt Silver

Was just watching this video on Youtube which sounds exactly the same as mine....problem being reported as the injectors:



Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad 2010 FL2 TD4 GS

Post #370253 15th Apr 2019 5:34 pm
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Boxbrownie



Member Since: 17 Mar 2019
Location: Looe
Posts: 190

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 i6 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

Compression test first I reckon.......I wonder if there might have been a bit of water ingestion? Regards

David

Please let me know if anything in my post offends you, as I may wish to offend you again......

Post #370260 15th Apr 2019 6:34 pm
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alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Constanta
Posts: 4076

Romania 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto Alaska White

It's obvious, from the engine vibrations and frequency of sound, that one of the four cylinder entities is not working properly.
I, for one, I would disconnect the electrical connection to each injector, one injector at the time, and see if it's the same.

Beware, if you will do it!!!!
Being piezo injectors, DO NOT disconnect them when the engine is running, because you can remain with an open injector and you don't want an injector to continuously inject fuel from the high pressure rail with the engine running...
Stop engine, disconnect injector, start engine, listen, stop engine..... etc.

Disclaimer: of course, if you will do it, you will do it at your own risk! Very Happy

. Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads... Go beyond !

Post #370264 15th Apr 2019 6:53 pm
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