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Andy131



Member Since: 09 Dec 2009
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1327

United Kingdom 

Too late, drained and filled at 150K
Sold the car at 185k as the gearbox had started to play silly Censored - skipping gears / loosing drive - suspected valve block was failing. Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Post #362133 17th Dec 2018 5:09 pm
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AndreO



Member Since: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Kempton Park
Posts: 7

South Africa 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto Stornoway Grey
Dextron 6.

Hi Guys - many thanks for the incredible amount of good info.
To cut a long story short, I did the 3-flush method and replaced 9 litres of oil. Initially the oil was blackish, and on completion still dark red. I will now do a single flush at every oil change.
My only issue was getting the gearbox temp to 60C. I could not work out the logics behind this, and as I replaced exactly the same amount as what I removed, I warmed the gearbox up warm to the touch and did the final top-up. After running the engine on axle stands for nearly half an hour, Putting it in gear with foot on the brake, the temp was still only warm to the touch and I gave up. Taking it for a drive was not an option as it is a mission getting the car on, off and on jacks again and perfectly level.
The reason for this post is that after reading through all the posts, the fluid specs vary widely and confused the living daylights out of me.
I cut down to the crux and bought 10 litres of Dextron 6 that includes all specs and is superior to all other gearbox fluids. Some threads confirm this.
I have done 8000km after the change and the 'box is super, creamy velvety smooth. Like incredible!
Shopping around, The price of Dextron 6 is similar to any other ATF.

Post #362878 2nd Jan 2019 6:42 am
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jules



Member Since: 13 Dec 2007
Location: The Wilds of Warwickshire
Posts: 1063

United Kingdom 2015 Freelander 2 SD4 SE Auto Firenze Red

Andre0 - How many miles had your gearbox done prior to the the oil flush ? Jules

Post #362889 2nd Jan 2019 9:38 am
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AndreO



Member Since: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Kempton Park
Posts: 7

South Africa 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto Stornoway Grey

Hi Jules - sorry about that - it had done 110,000 km (68,000 miles). Of which about 70% was very short distance town driving. Not Good.
When draining the old oil, I normally just wipe my hands and tools with paper towels or serviettes. Like normal engine oil. What I found very interesting is that no amount of wiping cleaned the Dextron 6 from my hands. It seems to coat your hands and stays 'slimy'. It takes 2 washes with hand-cleaner...

Post #362895 2nd Jan 2019 11:05 am
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dunkley201



Member Since: 09 Jul 2011
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 2541

United Kingdom 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

AndreO
I see your post about Dextron and that you are pleased with the outcome. I am sure Dextron is a quality product, but it is not the correct spec for our boxes.

However, it troubles me, I could not consider a “non 3309” fluid type. This is especially after the comments made by Alex, a most respected contributor. My quote on page 2 of this thread still applies:

“In our case,(TD4 Auto to MY2011) that is, T4 (IV) or 3309. Everything else is from the evil one.”

Bob 10MY (Sept 09) TD4 HSE Auto in Stornoway Grey - HEL braided brake lines, LR side steps,"Facelift" front bumper & tail lights. Si4 twin pipe box. 19” Triple Sports with Conti UHPs.
05 SEAT Alhambra 130TDi.
08 FL2 TD4 SE Manual in Rimini Red (Now Gone)

Post #362980 3rd Jan 2019 1:09 pm
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alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Constanta
Posts: 4029

Romania 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto Alaska White

Seen a lot of materials lately that will give as equivalent the T-WS (JWS3324) with Dexron VI.
The Dexron VI is (also) designed to work in slip/lock-up controlled transmissions.
The T-WS (JWS3324) have a lower viscosity than T-IV (JWS3309) and require to be more stable during time from loss of viscosity point of view.
And we know from that material/presentation that the box's manufacturer is telling that T-IV and T-WS are compatible.
Therefore Dexron VI = JWS3324 = JWS3309. (First two being synthetics). At least on paper. From additives point of view... another thing.

From Wiki:
Dexron VI is of a slightly lower viscosity when new compared to the prior Dexron fluids (a maximum of 6.4 cSt at 100 °C for Dexron VI and 7.5 cSt for Dexron III), but the allowed viscosity loss from shearing of the ATF during use is lower for Dexron VI, resulting in the same lowest allowed final viscosity for both Dexron III and VI (5.5 cSt) in test. In reality most of the DEXRON-III fluids typically sheared to about 4.2 cSt in use. The lower, more stable viscosity improved pumping efficiency within the transmission and fluid stability over life. Since Dexron VI is not allowed to thin out (lower its viscosity) as much as Dexron III during use, it requires the use of higher-quality, more shear-stable (less prone to thinning while in use) formulations.

I, for one, in the future, if I won't find any JWS3309/T-IV oil, I will not hesitate to put in a Dexron VI oil.
But, until then, I will use, in my MY2009, any JWS3309 I could find and, JWS3309 being mineral based, partially change 3 liters at each service interval (about 7500 miles).

Quote:
What I found very interesting is that no amount of wiping cleaned the Dextron 6 from my hands. It seems to coat your hands and stays 'slimy'. It takes 2 washes with hand-cleaner...

This is why a combination of 50/50 of ATF/acetone is better than any super penetrant oils on the market. Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads... Go beyond !

Post #363006 3rd Jan 2019 9:10 pm
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dunkley201



Member Since: 09 Jul 2011
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 2541

United Kingdom 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

Thanks for your valuable input Alex.

Bob 10MY (Sept 09) TD4 HSE Auto in Stornoway Grey - HEL braided brake lines, LR side steps,"Facelift" front bumper & tail lights. Si4 twin pipe box. 19” Triple Sports with Conti UHPs.
05 SEAT Alhambra 130TDi.
08 FL2 TD4 SE Manual in Rimini Red (Now Gone)

Post #363013 3rd Jan 2019 10:53 pm
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AndreO



Member Since: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Kempton Park
Posts: 7

South Africa 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto Stornoway Grey

Thanks Alex. Being in the Aircraft Engineering trade, I came to more-or-less your conclusion -you have just spelt it out very clearly and understandably with great substantiation.
Bottom line is, the gearbox oil spec for the Aisan 'box as fitted to the Freelander is a Dexron III. The Dexron VI supersedes that. In a nutshell.
The oil I found from Midas in South Africa equates to a Dexron VI and is approved by ZF, MB, GM and Allison amongst others.
I also always, always, and again always subject anything new to the 'proof-in-the-pudding'. I consider myself as being a pain in the butt as far as mechanical sympathy is concerned, and believe me after changing to the Dexron VI I was hyper-aware of anything adverse in the behaviour of the box. So far, the box is better than new, with any shift above 3rd gear being imperceptible apart from the rev-counter needle moving. I am super conscious of any possible gearbox slip (as I had in my 7spd Merc under hard acceleration), but there is nothing except for a foot-flat power surge as the box changes up or down through the gears.

Post #363033 4th Jan 2019 9:40 am
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arcturus28



Member Since: 21 Nov 2018
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 3

alex_pescaru wrote:
If the box has 120k without its oil ever been changed, then you don't want to change too much oil at once...
This because the amount of deposits that are inside the box and the cleaning additives inside the new oil.
You don't want to dislodge some big chunk of a deposit and plug some valve's thin passage.

So the 3 liters (from a total of 7 liters) that flows through the drain plug is more than enough.
From now on, change 3 liters at each 7.5k miles and you'll be good.

The above is the general knowledge and experience of a big community, the Russian community.
Almost all that have passed 120k and changed ALL oil, in other words performed a gearbox flush, later have developed valve block problems.
The ones that have changed in small amounts are OK.


Thank you for the advice Alex.

I'll invest in some car ramps and do a regular drain&fill. If I notice even a small improvement in gear-shift smoothness I'll consider it money well spent. It can be a little lumpy when fully warmed up (not excessive but it is noticeable vs cold... oddly) so I'm intrigued to see the result.

Post #363540 11th Jan 2019 10:32 pm
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jules



Member Since: 13 Dec 2007
Location: The Wilds of Warwickshire
Posts: 1063

United Kingdom 2015 Freelander 2 SD4 SE Auto Firenze Red
Re: Dextron 6.

AndreO wrote:
e.
My only issue was getting the gearbox temp to 60C. I could not work out the logics behind this, and as I replaced exactly the same amount as what I removed, I warmed the gearbox up warm to the touch and did the final top-up. ....


ATF expands a lot as it warms so checking the level has to be done near a set temp. Replacing a measured volume of hot ATF will require a smaller volume of cold ATF. It used to be easy when autoboxes had dipsticks but now its a PITA.

However once youve satisfied yourself that the gearbox is filled to the correct level you could carry out serial "dump and fills" by weighing the oil drained and replacing with same weight of cold ATF. This may save a bit of time if you doing a series of "dump & fills". You may need to sneak the wife's cooking scales out of the house to do this though. Wink

I calculate that starting with a total of 7L of old ATF in the gearbox, sequential 3L "dump & fill"s will remove 43%, 67%, 81%, 89% and 94% of the original old ATF assuming good mixing of old and new ATF between changes. So 3 "dump & fills"will remove the vast majority of the old ATF and 5 changes will remove nearly all of it Jules

Post #363656 13th Jan 2019 3:57 pm
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p_gill



Member Since: 06 Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 339

United States 2008 Freelander 2 i6 SE Auto Tambora Flame

Jules,

I think its more like 3.6L (if you lift the LR from the side, I can't remember which side so I tried both)





Thanks

Paul

Post #363721 14th Jan 2019 4:39 pm
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jules



Member Since: 13 Dec 2007
Location: The Wilds of Warwickshire
Posts: 1063

United Kingdom 2015 Freelander 2 SD4 SE Auto Firenze Red

Paul
Thats even better, 87% of the original ATF is removed after 3 cycles Jules

Post #363733 14th Jan 2019 6:50 pm
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alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Constanta
Posts: 4029

Romania 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto Alaska White

How can you manage to remove 3.6 liters when myself and many others, after a previous filling with a proper level check, couldn't manage to drain more than 3 liters ?... Very Happy
Indeed, no lift from the side, but 0.6 liters from a side lift...
Could be boxes for gasoline different than the ones for diesel? Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads... Go beyond !

Post #363737 14th Jan 2019 9:23 pm
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p_gill



Member Since: 06 Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 339

United States 2008 Freelander 2 i6 SE Auto Tambora Flame

You need more angle






Post #363746 14th Jan 2019 11:24 pm
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Yorky Bob



Member Since: 28 Apr 2015
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 4268

United Kingdom 2013 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Firenze Red

You need an axle stand Thud FL2 MY10 TD4 GS traded in at 2 years
FL2 MY13 TD4 GS Current

Post #363757 15th Jan 2019 7:13 am
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