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Home > Technical > Feelander 2 Hesitation / Judder / Stuttering fault
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dorsetfreelander



Member Since: 20 Jul 2013
Location: Dorset
Posts: 4340

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 XS Auto Loire Blue

ewrfvadffe wrote:

Vacuum in the tank, which slowly builds up because of a broken / jammed vent valve while driving.
As a result, for example, air can intrude at the connectors into the fuel supply line ... In much air sucked it can also get into the high-pressure part and cause further loss of power or jerking



Speaking as a physicist this makes no sense. Air can only get in the fuel system if the fuel level is extremely low or you get some sort of frothing and why would you get that unless the pressure was so low that the diesel boiled at room temp? Just had a look on the web and the vapour pressure at room temp of diesel is less than 0.5psi and this matches up with the fact that diesel doesn't evaporate very quickly if left out in the open. At that vacuum level you would probably collapse the tank and you would have trouble getting the cap off anyway. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

Post #274213 31st Aug 2015 9:53 am
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alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: RO
Posts: 4640

pcheaven wrote:
My hesitation was fixed with a SW update - Yes, Alex, according to the Update this should not work, but it did, my car went to the dealers 3 times, and this immediately fixed it, in my case.


Do you have at hand a LR compatible tester?
Could you please post here the HW/SW serial numbers of the ECU and its firmware (program & data)?
They look something like this (below my info, for a MY2009 car). Relevant are the right information, after ":".

Reading module info: [7E0] Engine
ECU VIN [F190]: SALFA.......
ECU S/N [F18C]: 33506301774
ECU ASY1 [F111]: 6G91-12A650-AE
ECU ASY3 [F113]: 6G91-12A650-AE
ECU HWN [F191]: 6G91-12B684-EC
ECU BOOT [F180]: 6G91-14C558-AD
ECU SWN1 [F188]: 6G91-14C204-BE
ECU SWN2 [F120]: 6G91-14C569-AA
ECU DAT1 [F124]: 9G92-12K532-VWA

Post #274215 31st Aug 2015 10:14 am
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alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: RO
Posts: 4640

dorsetfreelander wrote:

Speaking as a physicist this makes no sense. Air can only get in the fuel system if the fuel level is extremely low or you get some sort of frothing and why would you get that unless the pressure was so low that the diesel boiled at room temp? Just had a look on the web and the vapour pressure at room temp of diesel is less than 0.5psi and this matches up with the fact that diesel doesn't evaporate very quickly if left out in the open. At that vacuum level you would probably collapse the tank and you would have trouble getting the cap off anyway.


We are taking here about negative pressure - vacuum, not positive pressure.
If the tank is air tight, then, as the fuel is consumed, the vacuum will build up and the lift pump will have an increasing hard time to get the fuel from the tank, as the vacuum will "suck" it back to the tank.

Post #274216 31st Aug 2015 10:20 am
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dorsetfreelander



Member Since: 20 Jul 2013
Location: Dorset
Posts: 4340

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 XS Auto Loire Blue

All pressure is positive except in an absolute vacuum where it is zero. I agree that the vacuum in the tank will make the pump work harder but I was talking about the possibility of fuel vaporising (ie boiling) and vapor bubbles going down the fuel line. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

Post #274217 31st Aug 2015 10:27 am
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ewrfvadffe



Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: DE
Posts: 52

2011 Freelander 2 SD4 S Auto Barolo Black

pcheaven wrote:
↑↑↑↑↑↑↑

What he said.

My hesitation was fixed with a SW update - Yes, Alex, according to the Update this should not work, but it did, my car went to the dealers 3 times, and this immediately fixed it, in my case.
It may be worth noting I have a "pre release" MY 13 car on a VX12 plate.

Around town, I really hate the auto box on all the FL2's I have driven, though they are a much better drive in town when set to S

Off road, Auto rules - given no low range

Very Happy


Hi,

two weeks ago my LR garage said that my car is at the latest firmware version.
Do you know if there is are "patches" for specific problems which are not included in the general firmware versions?

Post #274220 31st Aug 2015 11:02 am
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pcheaven



Member Since: 19 Jan 2010
Location: Kent
Posts: 1459

United Kingdom 

alex_pescaru wrote:
pcheaven wrote:
My hesitation was fixed with a SW update - Yes, Alex, according to the Update this should not work, but it did, my car went to the dealers 3 times, and this immediately fixed it, in my case.


Do you have at hand a LR compatible tester?
Could you please post here the HW/SW serial numbers of the ECU and its firmware (program & data)?
They look something like this (below my info, for a MY2009 car). Relevant are the right information, after ":".

Reading module info: [7E0] Engine
ECU VIN [F190]: SALFA.......
ECU S/N [F18C]: 33506301774
ECU ASY1 [F111]: 6G91-12A650-AE
ECU ASY3 [F113]: 6G91-12A650-AE
ECU HWN [F191]: 6G91-12B684-EC
ECU BOOT [F180]: 6G91-14C558-AD
ECU SWN1 [F188]: 6G91-14C204-BE
ECU SWN2 [F120]: 6G91-14C569-AA
ECU DAT1 [F124]: 9G92-12K532-VWA



Sorry, I don't have the tools to gather this data Sad 

Post #274221 31st Aug 2015 11:05 am
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alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: RO
Posts: 4640

pcheaven
Don't you know someone near you with proper tools?
Maybe even the ones that flashed your unit?
If indeed solved your problem, then it will be a big help for the community to know what to program/flash inside ECU in order to help solving this problem... Bow down
BTW, it was an official file/firmware, or a custom one?

dorsetfreelander
Absolute pressures, relative pressures,.... details, semantics, ... you've got the idea at hand: too much vacuum in tank means bad fuel feed. Laughing Thumbs Up

Post #274231 31st Aug 2015 1:27 pm
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pcheaven



Member Since: 19 Jan 2010
Location: Kent
Posts: 1459

United Kingdom 

official, done by local LR dealer - Harwoods 

Post #274234 31st Aug 2015 2:38 pm
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landmaciej



Member Since: 06 Jan 2015
Location: podkarpackie
Posts: 27

Poland 2011 Freelander 2 TD4 S Manual Santorini Black

Do freelanders before lift in 2011 have egr ?

Post #274235 31st Aug 2015 2:44 pm
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ewrfvadffe



Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: DE
Posts: 52

2011 Freelander 2 SD4 S Auto Barolo Black

Hi,

news from my daily list.
At the morning i had 2-3 judders, but not really hard. there was a little vacuum in tank.
This afternoon i opened the cap before i drove. No judder, very soft gear shifts and no turbo noise.

Click image to enlarge


Tomorrow morning i will open the cap before i drive.
According to the weather news i should have temps between 26-36°C and very dry air the next days.

Post #274236 31st Aug 2015 3:39 pm
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Jim NI



Member Since: 30 Mar 2010
Location: NI
Posts: 447

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 SE Auto Loire Blue

I've requested the latest software from the guys at GAP and hoping to get that soon to flash engine ECU on my MY11 that has been displaying issues. Will update on progress 2014 SE Loire Blue SD4 Auto (MY15)
Gone - 2011 GS Baltic Blue, Retrofit Electric Leather, Side Steps, 19"SC's, Roof Rails, TT Sat Nav Mod, Retrofit Premium Audio, Retro fit 2013 Xenons with DRL & Sig Strip (Clutch at 47k)
Gone - 2007 GS Narvik Black, Privacy Glass, 19" SC's, Side Steps,Roof Rails, Roof Spoiler, Lamp Guards, Retrofit Electric Leather (Clutch at 115k)
Gone - 2007 SE Santorini Black (Clutch at 120k)
BT IID (best money ever spent on a car)

Post #274240 31st Aug 2015 4:57 pm
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alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: RO
Posts: 4640

Are the flashing functions available for FL2 on GAP products yet?

Post #274248 31st Aug 2015 7:35 pm
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Mikey



Member Since: 07 Jun 2008
Location: Dundee
Posts: 778

Scotland 2012 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Baltic Blue

Whether it helps or not, I can get some data off my 2010 for you to compare Smile

Post #274249 31st Aug 2015 8:03 pm
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Jim NI



Member Since: 30 Mar 2010
Location: NI
Posts: 447

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 SE Auto Loire Blue

alex_pescaru wrote:
Are the flashing functions available for FL2 on GAP products yet?


Alex - they are developing the tool for global update flashing (all modules flashed to latest software on one hit) They have still a bit to finish off but i emailed Pat earlier today and he replied that he will provide me with functionality shortly. 2014 SE Loire Blue SD4 Auto (MY15)
Gone - 2011 GS Baltic Blue, Retrofit Electric Leather, Side Steps, 19"SC's, Roof Rails, TT Sat Nav Mod, Retrofit Premium Audio, Retro fit 2013 Xenons with DRL & Sig Strip (Clutch at 47k)
Gone - 2007 GS Narvik Black, Privacy Glass, 19" SC's, Side Steps,Roof Rails, Roof Spoiler, Lamp Guards, Retrofit Electric Leather (Clutch at 115k)
Gone - 2007 SE Santorini Black (Clutch at 120k)
BT IID (best money ever spent on a car)

Post #274251 31st Aug 2015 8:28 pm
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dorsetfreelander



Member Since: 20 Jul 2013
Location: Dorset
Posts: 4340

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 XS Auto Loire Blue

If it helps I had LR Assist out yesterday on an unrelated fault on my 2011 model and I mentioned that I used to have the hesitation issue and he said that there was a software fix for it so he checked my car and found it was up to date. The point is that he was prepared to do the upgrade there and then if necessary. So if you have LR Assist you could always try calling them out and get it done on your drive. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

Post #274259 31st Aug 2015 10:16 pm
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