Forum-Gallery-Shop-Sponsors

« Advertise on Freel2.com

Home > Technical > Feelander 2 Hesitation / Judder / Stuttering fault
Post Reply  Down to end
Page 8 of 25 <123 ... 789 ... 232425>
Print this entire topic · 
ewrfvadffe



Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: DE
Posts: 52

2011 Freelander 2 SD4 S Auto Barolo Black

Hello,

i have done a 30 minutes test drive and recorded some parameters via OBD2 today.
But i was not able to reproduce or provocate the stutter. Evil or Very Mad (stutter only works when you dont want it Laughing)
The ambient temperature was between 26°C and 30°C.

I have recorded the following parameters:

Device Time
Fuel Rail Pressure
Mass Air Flow Rate
Speed (OBD)(km/h)
Air Fuel Ratio
Engine RPM
Turbo Boost & Vacuum Gauge
Ambient air temp(°C)
Accelerator PedalPosition D(%)
Intake Manifold Pressure
Intake Air Temperature

I will record the data and try to reproduce the stuttering tomorrow morning again.
If there is someone out there who has knowledge about engines please let me know if you are interested in the data.

Maybe we can find a clue to solve the problem.

Thanks

Post #273918 27th Aug 2015 7:51 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ewrfvadffe



Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: DE
Posts: 52

2011 Freelander 2 SD4 S Auto Barolo Black

Hello,

test drive is done and the stuttering appeared at nearly every stop start situation.
I have recorded it and here are some measures from the OBD2.

Barometric pressure (from vehicle)(psi) real avg = 14.504 +/- 0.000 [14.504 ; 14.504]
Fuel Rail Pressure(psi) real avg = 9064.930 +/- 3069.482 [59.465 ; 16080.334]
Mass Air Flow Rate(g/s) real avg = 17.003 +/- 12.178 [1.380 ; 82.770]
Catalyst Temperature (Bank 1 Sensor 1)(°C) real avg = 297.676 +/- 49.440 [144.800 ; 401.700]
Speed (OBD)(km/h) integer avg = 22.070 +/- 18.714 [0.000 ; 54.000]
Transmission Temperature(Method 1)(°C) integer avg = 72.331 +/- 9.454 [49.000 ; 81.000]
Catalyst Temperature (Bank 1 Sensor 2)(°C) real avg = 287.514 +/- 56.620 [128.200 ; 356.200]
Air Fuel Ratio(Measured)(:1) real avg = 22.912 +/- 4.521 [15.207 ; 29.400]
Engine Load(%) real avg = 61.512 +/- 29.504 [0.000 ; 100.000]
Intake Air Temperature(°C) integer avg = 26.510 +/- 0.919 [25.000 ; 28.000]
Intake Manifold Pressure(psi) real avg = 16.122 +/- 2.611 [6.237 ; 30.748]
Turbo Boost & Vacuum Gauge(psi) real avg = 1.618 +/- 2.611 [-8.267 ; 16.244]
Engine RPM(rpm) real avg = 1197.434 +/- 414.912 [0.000 ; 2408.000]
Voltage (Control Module)(V) real avg = 14.209 +/- 0.229 [12.700 ; 14.420]
O2 Sensor1 wide-range Voltage real avg = 0.456 +/- 0.319 [0.000 ; 1.189]
Ambient air temp(°C) integer avg = 20.176 +/- 0.508 [19.000 ; 22.000]

I can not guarantee that the measured values are correct.
If somebody is interested in the raw data please let me know.

Environmental values:
actual barometric pressure from weather website: 1014.7hPa
actual temperature from weather website: 17.4°C
actual humidity from weather website: 95%
Driving at altitude: about 90 - 98 meters

Some facts:
the temperature was lower than yesterday
it was raining today
sucking noise from turbo when shifting today, yesterday i had no or less noise
Barometric pressure from OBD is looking weird because the value was always 14.50377369 (I dont know if it is a read error)

I will do the test drive and compare the measures again this afternoon.

Post #273956 28th Aug 2015 7:36 am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ewrfvadffe



Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: DE
Posts: 52

2011 Freelander 2 SD4 S Auto Barolo Black

done the test again. same weather same problem.
Stuttering occured at least every stop start situation and sometimes between 2-3 gear.

Does anybody know if the PID33 (Barometric Pressure) is static value?
Is if also possible that the software does not read the value correct because i have always the same value 14.50377369

Post #273994 28th Aug 2015 2:23 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: RO
Posts: 4640

It's normal. It's the atmospheric pressure. We all live and breathe in air at around 1 atm = 14.5 psi at sea level.
But it seems that you have a granny style driving.
Try to test again and change gears at around and over 2100-2300 RPM.
See if it happens again.

LE: I see now you have an automatic... I was confused about the stop/start expression, a feature of manual cars.
In this case try to drive in sport.

LE2: Is this stuttering during gears, or it appears when your automatic is changing gears?

Post #273995 28th Aug 2015 3:00 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ewrfvadffe



Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: DE
Posts: 52

2011 Freelander 2 SD4 S Auto Barolo Black

Hi Alex,

thank you for the explanation Smile

the test drive was inner city, thats the reason for the low RPM´s.
But yesterday i wasn´t even able to provocate it with the same driving style like today.
I tried it with more and less hard acceleration.

One hour ago i tried it again, even when i drive harder i can feel the stuttering when changing gears (auto gearbox)

The only difference between today and yesterday is the weather.
How much can the air humidity affect the engine management?

Humidity today: 93 %
Humidity yesterday: 44 %

Sorry for my little knowledge about engines but i dont want to solve the problem by replacing components on suspicion.

Post #274000 28th Aug 2015 3:27 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: RO
Posts: 4640

When changing gears, an autobox, can leave the feeling of momentary lack of torque.
Now it's important how much lack of torque and how long...
I too have these symptoms, sometimes, when changing 1-2 and 2-3, but only for a fraction of a second.
How many kms has your car? Did you changed the oil in the autobox until now?

Post #274003 28th Aug 2015 3:37 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ewrfvadffe



Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: DE
Posts: 52

2011 Freelander 2 SD4 S Auto Barolo Black

Hi Alex,

with stop/start i meant stop at the red traffic light (with running engine) and accelerate at green light. Sorry for the confusion, youre right,i have an automatic.

my car has about 40.000km.
autobox oil was not changed. since today.

Sometimes the stuttering occurs 2 times at one gear change. the duration is about 1 second.
I will upload a video and post the link.
There you should hear the strange noise too (LR said the noise is coming from turbo, it is normal and works as designed Very Happy ).

Do you have these symptoms always or only sometimes?

Post #274005 28th Aug 2015 3:52 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ewrfvadffe



Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: DE
Posts: 52

2011 Freelander 2 SD4 S Auto Barolo Black

Hi Alex,

here is the video. next time i will have a passenger to help me to filming Smile
It was a short street so i had to break shortly after the gear shift.



As you can see in the video i accelerate not really hard, but at the traffic light it is a normal for me.
Is it possibly the adaptive gearbox learned my slow driving and thats the reason why it is getting in trouble sometimes?

Post #274007 28th Aug 2015 4:16 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
landmaciej



Member Since: 06 Jan 2015
Location: podkarpackie
Posts: 27

Poland 2011 Freelander 2 TD4 S Manual Santorini Black

Same situation with mine, normal acceleration. Clearly audible suction like sound plus judder. And no it is not normal. I hope nothing wrong happens because of that judder or hesitation on 1st gear. We have enough evidence ...

Post #274009 28th Aug 2015 4:55 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: RO
Posts: 4640

Question is: when the drop in RPM is seen, did you also notice a drop in traction/pulling?
Or the car continues to accelerate, even if the RPM is dropping slightly?
If the later, then it's normal, because of how the gearbox works - the auto gearbox.

Post #274010 28th Aug 2015 5:09 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
landmaciej



Member Since: 06 Jan 2015
Location: podkarpackie
Posts: 27

Poland 2011 Freelander 2 TD4 S Manual Santorini Black

How can the car continue to accelerate when the turbo is "coughing" ? It doesn't during the time of juddering.

Post #274011 28th Aug 2015 5:12 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ewrfvadffe



Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: DE
Posts: 52

2011 Freelander 2 SD4 S Auto Barolo Black

Hi Alex,

when the RPM drops i can feel that there is a lack of acceleration for a short period of time (about 1 second).

As i wrote in my older post for me it feels that some specific environmental parameters are needed to cause the problem.
I will write down some parameters like ambient temperature, air humidity etc. when the problem occurs and do the same for days where the problem can not be provocated. Hopefully it helps...

Post #274012 28th Aug 2015 5:17 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: RO
Posts: 4640

I was talking about his particular case. Read the last sentence.
It can't be tell too well from the movie

Post #274013 28th Aug 2015 5:19 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
landmaciej



Member Since: 06 Jan 2015
Location: podkarpackie
Posts: 27

Poland 2011 Freelander 2 TD4 S Manual Santorini Black

I know Alex I can hear it because my ear knows how it sounds Wink His particular case is not particular at all. Its how to say ? Common

Post #274014 28th Aug 2015 5:24 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
alex_pescaru



Member Since: 12 Mar 2009
Location: RO
Posts: 4640

For starters, if you can log the intake manifold pressure and fuel rail pressure vs rpm and throttle angle would be nice.
With as good resolution over time as possible.
Ideally a graph plot like the ones IID tool from GAP Diagnostics can do.

landmaciej, by his particular case I meant the fact that he has an automatic, not a manual, and on automatics can be seen drops in RPM when the car in fact accelerates. There was the need to clarify this, to eliminate the automatic box.


Last edited by alex_pescaru on 28th Aug 2015 5:29 pm. Edited 1 time in total

Post #274015 28th Aug 2015 5:24 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Post Reply  Back to top
Page 8 of 25 <123 ... 789 ... 232425>
All times are GMT

Jump to  
Previous Topic | Next Topic >
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Site Copyright © 2006-2024 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis
Freel2.com RSS Feed - All Forums


Switch to Mobile site